Build next years team

[FlipTheBird]

If Mancini is going to be a full time player, I think it is absurd for him to be a full time DH at this stage of his career. They need to figure out how he can play first for a fair number of games and have Davis DH those games or play right.

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Davis is a very good defensive first baseman. Better than Mancini.

You either DH Mancini or trade him for a similar young guy that plays a position we need, given Davis' contract status. Only two outcomes.

[sportsfan8703]

Davis is a very good defensive first baseman. Better than Mancini.

You either DH Mancini or trade him for a similar young guy that plays a position we need, given Davis' contract status. Only two outcomes.

Davis is nasty with the glove and probably has the best skill set sans Jones on the team to play RF everyday. Keep a strength a strength with the infield defense. Mancini can get AB's against LH's.

This team has is has a great bullpen. Great IF defense. Good SP. How will we address RF, C and DH is the key.

I wonder what it would take to pry CarGo away from the Rockies?

[wildcard]

Why am I talking about 2015? Because that's what I was originally talking about (and you responded to) when explained how Jimenez, Miley, or Gallardo might start out in the rotation instead of Bundy if all of the current starters are kept. Gausman had started 20 games in 2014 with a 3.57 ERA and looked like a shoe in for a starting spot. At the time you argued that Jimenez would start out in the bullpen because "he always gets off to slow starts".

Instead the Orioles started Gausman out in the bullpen and Jimenez had a great April and an excellent first half. I'm not dinging you not predicting that Jimenez would start out well in 2015. Who could have known? It is a little bit weak that you keep insisting that he "always" starts out slow even after what happened in 2015. The 2015 example is just another example of how the Orioles want to get something for their money and are very unlikely to have a 13M, 11M, or 9M pitcher start the season off as a long man and how Bundy starting out in the bullpen is "possible" based on the past.

As for Pearce, his age has nothing to do with the Orioles signing him or not. He's not being signed to a 3-4 year contract. As far as injury proness goes, there is a history of him not holding up but again, he's managed over 250 AB's the last three years without ever being penciled in as a full time regular. Last season proved he can still hit. You don't even know what his salary will be next year coming off of surgery so how do you even know that his salary will preclude him from being an Oriole. He made 4.5M last year. A lot will depend on the makeup on the team. If they go with Mancini at DH, Pearce would be excellent insurance if Mancini fails. And if Manciini holds down the DH job, Pearce can still platoon in LF with Kim and be insurance for CD at 1B.

As I said previously, Pearce makes a lot of sense for the Orioles but a lot depends on the makeup of the team. It's way too early to say if it will make sense for 2017.

The thing you are forgetting or just plain ignoring is that Joseph didn't get a chance UNTIL his defense had improved to Buck's satisfaction. He didn't have to work on it at the ML level. I'm not saying that Russell didn't help him once he got to the majors. I'm saying his defense was ML acceptable when he was finally given a chance. That does not appear to be the case for Sisco. For all reports, he's not ready defensively. If you choose to believe that he'll be ready defensively by next April, I can only say "from your keyboard to God's eyes".

BTW. Here's the original exchange. ME.

YOU

Obviously, you misread my post and thought it was 2016 I was talking about when it clearly stated 2015. Your reference of Gallardo shows that.

Good point about Jimenez in 2015.

[tntoriole]

Play him in the OF at Norfolk next year and see what happens. Mancini isn't going to be harmed if he starts the year at AAA. I know most people don't think he can make it in the OF but it may be worth a shot.

They should have gone in that direction this year but instead really had him work hard on improving defensively at first and Ron Johnson at Norfolk described him as having made vast improvement and that he is much better defensively now at first. He can be a DH but still have him play 50 games at first to maintain that as an option. Davis can DH or play right in 50 games.

[Can_of_corn]

They should have gone in that direction this year but instead really had him work hard on improving defensively at first and Ron Johnson at Norfolk described him as having made vast improvement and that he is much better defensively now at first. He can be a DH but still have him play 50 games at first to maintain that as an option. Davis can DH or play right in 50 games.

Or get the occasional game off even!

[crawjo]

You are pretty hard to please.

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Maybe, but I like players who can do things well other than hit home runs. Trumbo is not one of those players. He was less valuable this year than Chris Davis was. I don't care that he hit 47 home runs. His OBP is poor and so is his defense. I'd be bummed if he accepted a qualifying offer, to be honest. I mean he wasn't even a 2 WAR player this year and that was while leading all of baseball in home runs. Take away some of the homers and he'd be a disaster.

[eddie83]

Yes, let's keep all our best prospects in AAA until they are 27 and overpay some random donk veterans.

Let's rush kids up here, all will play at a high level because they are prospects. All prospects make it!

Mancini turns 25 next year. If the Orioles can improve themselves with a legit DH and that means Mancini has to go back to AAA oh well.

[tntoriole]

Maybe, but I like players who can do things well other than hit home runs. Trumbo is not one of those players. He was less valuable this year than Chris Davis was. I don't care that he hit 47 home runs. His OBP is poor and so is his defense. I'd be bummed if he accepted a qualifying offer, to be honest. I mean he wasn't even a 2 WAR player this year and that was while leading all of baseball in home runs. Take away some of the homers and he'd be a disaster.

Take away Trumbo this year and we are 4th place.

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[El Gordo]

Maybe, but I like players who can do things well other than hit home runs. Trumbo is not one of those players. He was less valuable this year than Chris Davis was. I don't care that he hit 47 home runs. His OBP is poor and so is his defense. I'd be bummed if he accepted a qualifying offer, to be honest. I mean he wasn't even a 2 WAR player this year and that was while leading all of baseball in home runs. Take away some of the homers and he'd be a disaster.

Not if he plays 1B.

[Tryptamine]

Version 1(What I would do, sorry it's going to be long)

Non tender Vance Worley

Dump Gallardo for whatever $ savings you can get

Let Wieters go without a QO

Trumbo gets a QO, with no intention of resigning unless it's well below market, like 2/20

Throw a 5/70 extension at Tillman 2017:10M 2018-21:15M

Britton to LAD for Jose De Leon(2017),Willie Calhoun(2018) and Cody Thomas(2019). De Leon is a top 25 guy who has legitimate #2 upside and is MLB ready. Calhoun is a top 100 guy who can play 2B, but is better served as a COF and his bat will play there. He hit 27 bombs in AA at age 21. Cody Thomas was one of last draft's big steals. The 21 year old OFer hit 19HR in his first 59 professional games.

Why they do it? Dodgers are losing elite closer Kenley Jansen to FA and Britton is one of only two upgrades out there with the other likely headed back to the Yankees.Baltimore gets an immediate impact starter, a near MLB ready impact bat and another bat to dream on.

Jones to STL for Jack Flaherty(Mid 2018) and Junior Fernandez(2019). Flaherty will start 2017 as a top 100 guy and is a good bet for a quality #3 type with maybe a bit more. Fernandez is a big gamble, but his stuff is filthy. His fastball can touch 100mph with movement and his change up is above average, but his control is poor. The results aren't there yet, but if he can develop control he becomes a closer type. If he can improve his slider to be an above average third pitch he could be even more.

Why they do it? Cardinals are already flush with starters who wont be in the rotation like Tim Cooney and they've finally decided that Grichuk needs to be a COF. BAL takes advantage of STL's embarrassment of riches.

Machado: I really wanted to move Machado here, but quite frankly no one has the positional need, necessary pieces and means to extend him.Rangers resigned Beltre,Cubs have Bryant,Boston has Moncada,NYY have too many holes to spend all prospects on one space, etc etc.

Sign Jon Jay through 2018, 2/12 (Solid defense and good OBP skills he can play anywhere in the OF)

Sign Eric Thames through 2018, 2/12 with a 3rd year option of 8M and 1M buyout (No joke, with the success of Kang and Kim, why not roll the dice on a minimal investment?)

Sign Carlos Gomez through 2017, 1/12(Best case scenario he plays like he did everywhere but HOU and nets you some nice pieces at the deadline. Worst case scenario, he's only on a one year prove it deal)

Sign Brett Cecil 3/12(Very good when used strictly as a loogy and the trade market pays heavy for good lefties. Look at what Rzepcynzki brought back from the Nationals,Schrock was robbery)

Sign Greg Holland 1/8(The best gambling piece available this off season. He should finally be healthy and before his injury he was one of the game's elite closers. Perfect trade material at the break)

2017 Roster(This is going to be brutal, but all you're trying to do right now is accumulate talent via picks or quick trades with 2019 likely being the first competitive year)

C-Josheph/Sisco(Around the ASB)

1B-Davis

2B-Schoop

SS-Hardy(No reason to move him, return wont be worth it)

3B-Machado

RF-Jay

CF-Gomez/Jay

LF-Kim/Thames

DH-Mancini/Thames

SP:Tillman,Gausman,Bundy,De Leon,Ubaldo(Miley long reliever)

RP: Givens,O'Day,Brach,Drake,Cecil,Miley,Holland

For 2018, you continue to see if any Machado trade makes sense and hopefully added a few nice prospects from moving Holland and Carlos Gomez at the deadline. Willie Calhoun takes over in LF and Flaherty takes over as the #5 behind Tillman,Gausman,Bundy and De Leon giving you a 5 man rotation where everyone has #3 or better upside. There should also be good bit of money available with Britton,Gallardo,Ubaldo,Miley,Jones and Wieter's contracts gone. Just in time for 2019's mega FA.

[srock]

Bourn is a legit 4th OF. He probably shouldn't be starting or even the strong side of platoon based on last year.

I'm not counting on Bourne either. His defense isn't even great anymore. And he hasn't hit enough (in several years!) to start unless he is playing high level defense in CF.

However, I am very interested in moving Jones to RF and finding a high level defender in CF. A guy who can hit just enough is fine. Hopefully Jones is a big defense boost in RF and maybe his bat improves without the wear and tear of CF.

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[JR Oriole]

Take away Trumbo this year and we are 4th place.

I absolutely agree with this. He drove in the only run in the Gausman game in Boston. There was another game somewhat recently where he had a big homer or hit that was the difference in the game. I definitely am not a WAR expert by any means, but I do know that the game situation in which you hit the homer should matter a lot. He had some really big hits this year that I remember thinking impacted the course of the game at the time and I don't know that WAR measures that. I don't know what Schoop's WAR is, but I know that he had 2 hits (in LA and in SF) that played a massive role in us winning those games. So how does GW RBI factor into WAR?

[Babypowder]

Not if he plays 1B.

Trumbo just put up his second highest wRC+ of his career at 123. That would place him between Jose Abreu and Hanley Ramirez as the 10th best qualified offensive first baseman. Those two were worth 1.6 and 2.6 wins respectively. So, Trumbo would probably still have about a 2 win ceiling at first base too.

[Babypowder]

I absolutely agree with this. He drove in the only run in the Gausman game in Boston. There was another game somewhat recently where he had a big homer or hit that was the difference in the game. I definitely am not a WAR expert by any means, but I do know that the game situation in which you hit the homer should matter a lot. He had some really big hits this year that I remember thinking impacted the course of the game at the time and I don't know that WAR measures that. I don't know what Schoop's WAR is, but I know that he had 2 hits (in LA and in SF) that played a massive role in us winning those games. So how does GW RBI factor into WAR?

It doesn't, because context is random and out of the player's control. The stat you are looking for is WPA.

[Babypowder]

Davis is nasty with the glove and probably has the best skill set sans Jones on the team to play RF everyday. Keep a strength a strength with the infield defense. Mancini can get AB's against LH's.

This team has is has a great bullpen. Great IF defense. Good SP. How will we address RF, C and DH is the key.

I wonder what it would take to pry CarGo away from the Rockies?

CarGo? He's a league average player at this point and getting paid 20 million next year. I'd take him if I give up nothing and they eat money, which isn't happening.