Missed the boat

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

I am guessing you mean bad blood on his part. Bad enough that more money wouldn't have quelled it?

 

If it was bad blood in out part that is inexcusable in my opinion. He wasn't under any contractual obligation last year to NOT do what he did. Did it hurt us?  Yes. Was it the right move for him?  Absolutely. He got a ring with a storied franchise and set himself up. Applaud him and let it go to sign him now.

 

Winners eat pride. 

It's easy to say, harder to do.   And do winners eat pride?   Do you have some examples?

I honestly don't think we ever got the full scoop on what happened last year, so I don't want to say much more.    It's water under the bridge anyway.

[bird watcher]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It's easy to say, harder to do.   And do winners eat pride?   Do you have some examples?

I honestly don't think we ever got the full scoop on what happened last year, so I don't want to say much more.    It's water under the bridge anyway.

Every year players are crushed mercilessly in arbitration and then see past it for both party's best interest. 

Buck was clearly annoyed by Davis' obstinacy last year and got over it. 

Dan Duquette and Peter Angelos had bad blood when Dan tried to bolt and they got over it enough to coexist. 

Grudges can be damning in business.  Forgiveness is a virtue and can do wonders for future good will.  

 

[bird watcher]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It's easy to say, harder to do.   And do winners eat pride?   Do you have some examples?

I honestly don't think we ever got the full scoop on what happened last year, so I don't want to say much more.    It's water under the bridge anyway.

My understanding is Palmer and Weaver coexisted despite some ugly tensions through the years. 

[bird watcher]

26 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

The Orioles had Fowler, he backed out last minute. I never heard any mention of him giving the Orioles a chance to up their offer. Fowler made the right decision obviously. Dan gave Fowler an offer last year that the market suggested he was worth. No one else gave Fowler a better multi year offer.

Was pointing to this year not last. It just seemed like not much was made of the O's not pursuing him; Like it was a foregone conclusion. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

Was pointing to this year not last. It just seemed like not much was made of the O's not pursuing him; Like it was a foregone conclusion. 

I don't think enough room existed in the budget to sign Fowler.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

Every year players are crushed mercilessly in arbitration and then see past it for both party's best interest. 

Buck was clearly annoyed by Davis' obstinacy last year and got over it. 

Dan Duquette and Peter Angelos had bad blood when Dan tried to bolt and they got over it enough to coexist. 

Grudges can be damning in business.  Forgiveness is a virtue and can do wonders for future good will.  

 

I don't disagree with you.   However, I note that in the examples you gave, there was an existing relationship before the event that caused the tension.   There's no relationship here.   That makes it harder to forgive and forget.   

[backwardsk]

2 hours ago, bird watcher said:

I can't help but feel that we really missed the boat on Fowler this offseason.  His contract at first blush looked to be a lot considering what he was asking for last year but given our current needs he would have been perfect.  Trumbo at 13m per 4 years (our offer which wasn't accepted) vs. Fowler at 16.5m per for 5 years is a no brainer to me even using average production predictions.  The defensive and on base capabilities for the next couple years far tilts things in Fowler's favor.  Plus if Jones leaves, Fowler could have been serviceable in CF.  

Why wasn't a stronger offer made?  I don't get it.  Perfect fit compared to all of these other options I am reading about.  If we are all in through 2018, this was a huge miss.  

He wasn't going to sign here.  The Cardinals would have upped their offer.  Fowler would have used us to drive up the price.  We really shouldn't be in the business of paying 17-18M to guys in their mid thirties.

We'll get by while Davis is having his decline years.  We shouldn't be compounding the problem.

 

[Dark Helmet]

20 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

Was pointing to this year not last. It just seemed like not much was made of the O's not pursuing him; Like it was a foregone conclusion. 

I understand that. Just pointing out, he agreed to a 3 year deal with the Orioles. He'd already be an Oriole, if he didn't back out on the O's. And the way he did it, I'm sure left a bad taste in the Orioles FO mouth. 

[bird watcher]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don't disagree with you.   However, I note that in the examples you gave, there was an existing relationship before the event that caused the tension.   There's no relationship here.   That makes it harder to forgive and forget.   

Harder yes. I do agree that we don't know exactly what was said behind the scenes. Perhaps it was irreconcilable. Shame for the O's that it got to that point if that is the case. 

[bird watcher]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think enough room existed in the budget to sign Fowler.

Hard to see that as truth when we are in on Trumbo at 3.5m less per year. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

Hard to see that as truth when we are in on Trumbo at 3.5m less per year. 

Owner's discretion. I also think Fowler wouldn't have signed in Baltimore what he signed to play for the Cardinals.

[bird watcher]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Owner's discretion. I also think Fowler wouldn't have signed in Baltimore what he signed to play for the Cardinals.

If its on Fowler then I agree nothing could be done. 

Owner's discretion. Angelos back to his meddling ways?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, bird watcher said:

If its on Fowler then I agree nothing could be done. 

Owner's discretion. Angelos back to his meddling ways?

The Trumbo situation seems remarkably like the Davis situation to me.

I could be wrong.

I think that if Trumbo doesn't sign with the O's they won't spend near as much as they offered him on anyone else.

[bird watcher]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The Trumbo situation seems remarkably like the Davis situation to me.

I could be wrong.

I think that if Trumbo doesn't sign with the O's they won't spend near as much as they offered him on anyone else.

It does feel similar but last year it was leaked all over the place that Angelos was personally negotiating for Davis. I hadn't heard that here. 

I guess that is part of my beef. Trumbo makes less sense than Fowler from a basball perspective but everyone acted as if Fowler was too expensive. But here we are willing to drop cash on Trumbo. 

[weams]

4 hours ago, bird watcher said:

My understanding is Palmer and Weaver coexisted despite some ugly tensions through the years. 

Jim wept at Earl's death.  I was near him shortly after he found out.