The Defense Thread, 2017

[Ohfan67]

Jones seemed a little banged up last night, especially after that diving attempt. 

[Frobby]

Game 36, May 14

A bad defensive play arguably cost us this game.    With the score tied 5-5 in the 6th, two on and nobody out, Manny quickly pounced on a bunt, whirled and threw to second -- where nobody was covering!    Inexplicably, Jonathan Schoop, who had been playing very close to the 2B bag, had charged towards 1B when the ball was bunted, even though the ball was bunted to the 3B side.   Manny's throw sailed into CF, the runner originally on 2B scored with the go-ahead run, and the play ended with runners on 2nd and 3rd with nobody out.   Those two runners eventually scored.   While the scorer had to charge the error to Manny, and arguably he could be blamed for throwing to a vacant base, to me he had every reason to expect Schoop to be there.    In any event, it was a terrible play.   

Earlier in the inning, Davis knocked down a hot smash and picked it up, but Bleier hadn't covered 1B and the runner beat Davis to 1B.

In the 8th, with a runner on, a batter hit a soft fly to CF.   Rickard took a step back, then charged in, dove and got his glove on it, but the ball squirted out of his glove for a single.   Definitely a ball he should have caught.   Eventually the Royals loaded the bases, but Hart escaped the jam.   

Overall, a bad defensive game.  

There also was a play where Manny fielded a chopper and flipped to 2B.    The runner was called out on a bang-bang play, confirmed after a Royals challenge, but the play was made too casually.

[Chavez Ravine]

27 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Didn't see the play in question but if Davis is charging from 1st, School has to cover first and cane wait to see which way the bunt goes. Depends in what kind of defense was called on the play.

On the radio, Bordick blamed Manny. It is not clear what play was called, but assuming Bordy still has a feel for the calls it seems like Manny goofed.

[webbrick2010]

It was a wheel play. Schoop did exactly what he was supposed to do

Manny had another mental lapse. He had the runner at third base by five steps.

I think we can halt the talk of Manny being a HOF player. He's not even an all star unless he gets in as the O's only representative.

[Frobby]

10 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

 

I think we can halt the talk of Manny being a HOF player. He's not even an all star unless he gets in as the O's only representative.

Manny's on pace for a 40 HR, 5 rWAR season, and he's been hitting in bad luck a lot of the time.    I'd say his chances of being an all star are better than 50/50, but it's too early to tell.    

As th the Hall of Fame, there's not too much sense in discussing that topic until a guy has played 10-12 years and we have some sense of how he's producing as he begins to age.   It suffices to say that he has done way more before his 25th birthday than most Hall of Famers.

[ChinMusic]

10 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I think we can halt the talk of Manny being a HOF player. He's not even an all star unless he gets in as the O's only representative.

You are the king of overreactions. Manny is 24 years old, it's far too early to seriously talk about the HOF at this stage of his career regardless.

Not to mention, using All Star games as ammunition for your statement is equally silly.

[Aristotelian]

11 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

It was a wheel play. Schoop did exactly what he was supposed to do

Manny had another mental lapse. He had the runner at third base by five steps.

I think we can halt the talk of Manny being a HOF player. He's not even an all star unless he gets in as the O's only representative.

We don't know what the play was. Obviously, Manny thought Schoop was supposed to have 2B covered. In fact, he was so sure of it he did not even need to check if the man was there.

I don't know why you would leave 2B uncovered in a possible double play situation.

I don't think we can say who was supposed to be where unless Buck or one of the players involved said so after the game.

[Frobby]

55 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We don't know what the play was. Obviously, Manny thought Schoop was supposed to have 2B covered. In fact, he was so sure of it he did not even need to check if the man was there.

I don't know why you would leave 2B uncovered in a possible double play situation.

I don't think we can say who was supposed to be where unless Buck or one of the players involved said so after the game.

Buck was deliberately vague.   Said there was a "miscommunication" and wasn't going to elaborate.    http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2017/05/wrapping-up-a-tough-weekend-for-the-orioles-at-kauffman-stadium.html

[webbrick2010]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

We don't know what the play was. Obviously, Manny thought Schoop was supposed to have 2B covered. In fact, he was so sure of it he did not even need to check if the man was there.

I don't know why you would leave 2B uncovered in a possible double play situation.

I don't think we can say who was supposed to be where unless Buck or one of the players involved said so after the game.

Did you watch the play? As soon as the hitter squared to bunt, Flaherty sprinted to third and Schoop sprinted to first. They didn't even watch the bunt. When Manny fielded the bunt Flaherty was at third and the runner was about 10 steps away. Manny was supposed to make the play at third or first, but didn't know/remember that the wheel was on and threw it into CF basically losing the game.  Everyone knew it was the wheel, except Manny, why I don't know and apparently Buck will never hold a player publically accountable for a screw up, Just like he has never publically criticized Manny for repeatedly making the third out at 3B.

[Frobby]

I don't think it's that obvious that Schoop did what he was supposed to do on that play.     You might be right, but I don't know that.   My guess is that Buck isn't saying because he doesn't want to reveal what our defensive plays are in those situations.   It will be interesting to see if either Manny or Jonathan is asked to comment.

[Aristotelian]

31 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Did you watch the play? As soon as the hitter squared to bunt, Flaherty sprinted to third and Schoop sprinted to first. They didn't even watch the bunt. When Manny fielded the bunt Flaherty was at third and the runner was about 10 steps away. Manny was supposed to make the play at third or first, but didn't know/remember that the wheel was on and threw it into CF basically losing the game.  Everyone knew it was the wheel, except Manny, why I don't know and apparently Buck will never hold a player publically accountable for a screw up, Just like he has never publically criticized Manny for repeatedly making the third out at 3B.

I did watch it. I know Flaherty correctly covered 3rd with Manny charging. Does "wheel play" mean that 2B is uncovered? I honestly don't know. Everyone appeared to be sure of himself but somebody was wrong. May have been Manny.

[Going Underground]

I have seen the catcher scream what base to throw it too ,since the players back is turned. Not sure where Caleb was.

[webbrick2010]

24 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I did watch it. I know Flaherty correctly covered 3rd with Manny charging. Does "wheel play" mean that 2B is uncovered? I honestly don't know. Everyone appeared to be sure of himself but somebody was wrong. May have been Manny.

Davis was also charging from first base which means Schoop has to cover first for the sure out in case of a great bunt

In fact the bunt was too hard leaving a very easy play at 3B if only Manny would have tossed it back to Flaherty

[Frobby]

Game 37, May 16

- There was a play in the first inning where Davis fielded a grounder, stepped on 1B but didn't tag the runner returning to the bag, losing a chance at a DP.    I didn't see the play, so I can't really describe what happened in detail.

- Rickard made a nice diving catch in the RCF gap, preventing a likely 3-run double.    

- Manny slid to one knee to field a hot smash to his left, did a 360 and made a strong throw to 1B to beat the runner by two steps.

- Rickard made a nice sliding catch coming in on a ball, first ruled a trap but the crew overruled that call without a replay challenge. 

- Jones let a fly ball land about 10 feet to one side of him in the 6th.   He might have caught it if he'd tried for a sliding catch, and seemed to realize it after the play, thumping his chest as if to say "that's on me."

- Hardy made a nice play on a hard hit ball up the middle, starting a 6-4-3 DP.    

- Schoop made a tremendous pivot throw on a DP, jumping to avoid a sliding runner right on top of him and gunning a throw with mustard on it.

- Hardy made a nice leaping catch of a liner to his backhand side.

- Victor Martinez laced a liner to the RF corner, but Smith got to it before it rolled to the wall and held the slow-running VMart to a single.

- In the 12th(?), Hardy tried to start another DP, but Flaherty's relay was late on a bang-bang play and the runner was called safe after a replay review.     I think if Schoop had been on the pivot, his arm would have completed the DP.

- in the 13th, Flaherty (playing to the SS side of 2B on a shift) knocked down a ball to his backhand side but couldn't keep it in his glove or pick it up cleanly.    

Overall, many notable plays in this game.   

[foxfield]

On 5/15/2017 at 11:50 AM, Aristotelian said:

I did watch it. I know Flaherty correctly covered 3rd with Manny charging. Does "wheel play" mean that 2B is uncovered? I honestly don't know. Everyone appeared to be sure of himself but somebody was wrong. May have been Manny.

If the wheel is on...First baseman stays at home....second rolls to second, SS rolls to third and 3b charges.  There was no one at second and IF the wheel was on, it was NOT Manny's error as second base should have been covered.  My guess is it was a coverage that left second open and Manny missed it. But as noted above, Buck did not want to discuss and reveal situational game plan info.