Palmer said Bundy had shoulder stiffness in his last start

[backwardsk]

2 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

I'm talking about Bundy. A guy who has had a history of arm issues. A guy who is on pace to throw over 200 innings after throwing 109 last year. I never said Buck had a history of abusing pitchers. I said he's abusing Bundy. And the results are TBD. 

Maybe the Orioles realize Bundy has a short shelf life, and they are going to get what they can while they can. 

But a pitcher like Bundy doesn't need to be pushed 8 innings if he's already given you 7 solid innings. 

I can name Tillman and O'Day as guys that suffered injuries. Britton? But, you will just say injuries happen and that isn't Buck. So, I'm keeping it to Bundy and my concern on how he's being handled. 

What if he got hurt in the seventh?  No problem with usage?  

[Dark Helmet]

16 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

What if he got hurt in the seventh?  No problem with usage?  

Why push it? I personally think it's 6 and done. Bundy's been in the system what 6 years? This will be his second full season at any level. I think concern is warranted. If you don't, that's fine. 

[backwardsk]

2 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

Why push it? I personally think it's 6 and done. Bundy's been in the system what 6 years? This will be his second full season at any level. I think concern is warranted. If you don't, that's fine. 

I understand the concern, I do.  He's either going to break or he's not.  I don't think holding him back from the seventh or eighth is all that materially preventive.

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

I'm talking about Bundy. A guy who has had a history of arm issues. A guy who is on pace to throw over 200 innings after throwing 109 last year. I never said Buck had a history of abusing pitchers. I said he's abusing Bundy. And the results are TBD. 

Maybe the Orioles realize Bundy has a short shelf life, and they are going to get what they can while they can. 

But a pitcher like Bundy doesn't need to be pushed 8 innings if he's already given you 7 solid innings. 

I can name Tillman and O'Day as guys that suffered injuries. Britton? But, you will just say injuries happen and that isn't Buck. So, I'm keeping it to Bundy and my concern on how he's being handled. 

Ddi you see that Caleb said they stayed away from the slider last night?

http://www.masnsports.com/media.php?show_id=3346293&p=

IMO.  Just because Buck has Bundy on pace for 200 innings doesn't mean he stays that way all year.

[TINSTAAPP]

 

9 hours ago, Finisher said:

Only took us two decades to finally have an ace. Enjoy the starts we get from him because there is no way he is lasting.

 

At this point, what makes Buck any different from Dusty Baker? They are very good at turning around the fortunes of franchises but can't get over the hump in the postseason and love to run their young starters into the ground. 

[eddie83]

50 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Forget the abuse angle. I just question the logic of taking a pitcher, whose velocity was down in his last start, was at 99 pitches after 7, had no chance of a complete game shutout, and asking him to start another inning.

Buck continue's to ask his starters to go that extra batter or that extra inning and it accomplishes nothing.  Invariably, it doesn't save the bullpen but just makes their job harder.  Buck is smart but he's not infallible.  Pretty stupid to ask more from Bundy last night.   Would 8 shutout innings and 115 pitches proven anything?

 

6 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

If he goes 8, which really could have been as little as an extra pitch if Hardy makes the catch and they roll a DP, then you don't have O'Day looking at trying to pitch three days in a row tonight.

I agree. This isn't about proving anything, this is about protecting the pen. With Britton back that should be much easier. The only angle last night would have been knowing the mismatch on paper tonight and going for the jugular last night. Many factors in play including not wanting to use Hart for Benintendi 

[weams]

3 minutes ago, TINSTAAPP said:

 

 

At this point, what makes Buck any different from Dusty Baker? They are very good at turning around the fortunes of franchises but can't get over the hump in the postseason and love to run their young starters into the ground. 

Unlike all the other franchises that break their starters too. Not. 

[Babypowder]

Velocity picked back up after his last start so that was good, but it was a lot of hard contact last night. He's probably not going to be able to get away with only striking out 8 guys every 20 innings long term. The Red Sox don't really strike out much though, hopefully it's that and not a downturn in stuff.

[wildcard]

Palmer on  Bundy's shoulder stiffness:

http://www.masnsports.com/media.php?show_id=3346291&p=

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, baltfan said:

Hardy should have caught the pop up. It was 5-0 and the bullpen was relatively spent.   I have no problem with him sending him out with a quick leash.  It's a teaching thing for Buck. 

You are missing the point. Bundy doesn't have the workload experience to be pushed like this so early in the season and especially when the most innings he's ever thrown is 109.2.

He's on pace for 209 innings this year if he throws 32 starts. That seems like a huge jump in innings. In a 5-0 game at 99 pitches on a night when he only struck out two and walked four, it seemed like a good time to go to the pen to me. I just think Buck is riding him a bit hard especially when there are so many unknowns when it comes to how he'll hold up due to his limited amount of pro innings he had. Remember, Bundy basically ran out of gas after 75 innings last year. 

[21xxxv]

10 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Actually I screwed up, they are batting .714 (5-for-7) after 101 pitches.

Yeah. Let's not forget that powerful line drive bloop that Hardy gaffed at.

[ExileAngelos]

Strikeout rate way down (5.7/9) and his x-FIP is nearly 3 runs higher than his ERA.   I'm concerned about his stuff more than his arm right now. 

[Frobby]

29 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

Palmer mentioned during the post-game that Bundy had some stiffness in the back of his shoulder...then said it was a late. So, there was something, just not clear what. I was wondering if that was reported or if that was just something Palmer knew 

This was mentioned by Bundy after his last start.    

[eddie83]

13 minutes ago, ExileAngelos said:

Strikeout rate way down (5.7/9) and his x-FIP is nearly 3 runs higher than his ERA.   I'm concerned about his stuff more than his arm right now. 

He had some loud outs last night but his stuff looks good to me. The kid can command multiple pitches for strikes and isn't afraid to use them in different counts. At some point he will have a rough patch but his stuff is more than good right now. 

[Tony-OH]

11 minutes ago, 21xxxv said:

Yeah. Let's not forget that powerful line drive bloop that Hardy gaffed at.

Just stop. At the end of the day, batters have gotten on base 75% of the time when Bundy reaches 101 or more pitches. It's a SSS, but it's the only sample we have because he's never thrown more than 100 pitches in a professional game until this year when Buck has already pushed him 4 times out of 6 starts. He's currently on pace to throw 100 more innings then he threw all of last year, and let's not forget he wore out after 70 innings last year. In his last 8 starts last year, he pitched to a 6.00 ERA with a 22/36 BB/K ratio in his last 39 IPs.

So now Buck has run his young starter out there for over 100 pitches in 4 our of his first 6 starts when last season he wore out and only went over 90 pitches nine times all season and nothing more than 99. So why is he squeezing out innings from him when it's not even needed? I understand about him not wanting to burn out his bullpen, but he also shouldn't try and burn out his best starter before July.

Look, I'm not pitching expert when it comes to developing a young starter, but I do know you have to be careful on big innings and workload jumps. Maybe Bundy will power through this year and make Buck look like a genius. I certainly hope so, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't have concerns over his usage so far.