Miranda v. Miley

[Camden_yardbird]

Since ragging on DD's ability to trade away pitching seems to be a popular topic I will start the discussion on the one and only trade I think is clearly inexcusable: Miranda for Miley and it's not purely performance based, its economic.

Since the trade:

Miranda, 10-4, 114.1 IP, 3.85 ERA

Miley, 3-8, 107.2 IP, 4.59 ERA

I think you could make a case that purely based on performance this was a bad trade to begin with, but I am not even going to do that.  The underlying data (Babip, xFIP) suggests that Miranda was extremely lucky last year and slightly less lucky this year, while Miley was extremely unlucky last year and has been slightly lucky this year.

However even if you were to correct for that Dan traded a pitcher with years of control for one with little team control and a previously shown inability to pitch in the AL East.  I think you can rationalize some of his other pitching trades as having had value in some form.  This one though sticks out as a real loser to me.

[Cumberbundy]

Why is observing DDs trades as atrocious associated with rage? I love the Os at 0-21 the same as I love them when they're rolling into the playoffs. He's hurt the organization profoundly. That's ok.   

He made awful trades of Ed Rod, Miranda, Hader, and Arrieta. 

[Burg]

4 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

Why is observing DDs trades as atrocious associated with rage? I love the Os at 0-21 the same as I love them when they're rolling into the playoffs. He's hurt the organization profoundly. That's ok.   

He made awful trades of Ed Rod, Miranda, Hader, and Arrieta. 

Not to beat a dead horse, but you cannot lump Arrieta in with the above moves.  He was never going to succeed here and it looks as if he may have regressed significantly this year.

[Cumberbundy]

2 minutes ago, Burg said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but you cannot lump Arrieta in with the above moves.  He was never going to succeed here and it looks as if he may have regressed significantly this year.

If ole Theo the great calls it the most lopsided deal he's ever made, then I think it has to be included. Our inability to get anything out of him, or more for him, is an issue. 

 

 

[webbrick2010]

2 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

If ole Theo the great calls it the most lopsided deal he's ever made, then I think it has to be included. Our inability to get anything out of him, or more for him, is an issue. 

 

 

Even if it was just Strop for Feldman it would have been a bad deal. Dumping a future Cy Young winner is inexcusable

[Cumberbundy]

2 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Even if it was just Strop for Feldman it would have been a bad deal. Dumping a future Cy Young winner is inexcusable

Fact

[Cumberbundy]

We were fairly close to losing Britton for nothing. That would have been tough. 

[Camden_yardbird]

40 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

Why is observing DDs trades as atrocious associated with rage? I love the Os at 0-21 the same as I love them when they're rolling into the playoffs. He's hurt the organization profoundly. That's ok.   

He made awful trades of Ed Rod, Miranda, Hader, and Arrieta. 

I think these can all clearly be differentiated from the Miley for Miranda trade.

Rodriguez got Mliller who was all-world with the Orioles

Hader got Norris who won 15 games

Arrieta was never going to succeed with the Orioles.

Look at the Miranda and Miley trade and nothing about it makes sense.  Not the performance, not the economics, nothing.

[FlipTheBird]

29 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Even if it was just Strop for Feldman it would have been a bad deal. Dumping a future Cy Young winner is inexcusable

If you show me a single post where you anticipated Arrieta's breakout I'd give this post credence. But you can't. The guy surprised everyone.

Strop, meanwhile, is just an average relief pitcher. Feldman ate some innings for the O's in 2013, which is all they ever asked him to do. It wasn't his fault that the team didn't reach the playoffs that year.

[sportsfan8703]

2 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

Why is observing DDs trades as atrocious associated with rage? I love the Os at 0-21 the same as I love them when they're rolling into the playoffs. He's hurt the organization profoundly. That's ok.   

He made awful trades of Ed Rod, Miranda, Hader, and Arrieta. 

How was Ed Rod a bad trade?  He only had to give up one top 100 prospect to get Andrew Miller.  Cleveland gave up two top 100 prospects plus two other arms.  Trading for Miller was just the price of winning the ALDS.  

Hader still hasn't thrown a big league pitch.  

I liked Miranda, but I think the Miley move was a good one.  Where would we be without Miley right now?  Miranda is a good fit for that ballpark.  You have to give up something to get something. 

[pastorfan]

2 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

Why is observing DDs trades as atrocious associated with rage? I love the Os at 0-21 the same as I love them when they're rolling into the playoffs. He's hurt the organization profoundly. That's ok.   

He made awful trades of Ed Rod, Miranda, Hader, and Arrieta. 

The E-Rod trade was ok because they got Miller; the fact that they did not resign Miller is where he screwed up.

[pastorfan]

2 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

Fact

The problem is that the O's could not develop Arrieta. That is where the failure ultimately occurred.

[Tony-OH]

At worse, it appears so far he traded away a younger Miley for a more expensive one. I never saw Miranda pitch live but the reports I got on him with 5th starter/swingman. So far he's done a bit better than that, but he's providing great value to the Mariners, even if he is pitching in a much better situation than Miley ballpark and Division wise..

[Frobby]

To me, the jury's still out a little on this one.    So far, Miranda has been better than I would have guessed.    If that continues, then it will certainly turn out to have been a bad trade.    This year Miranda's been very good at home (2.36 ERA) and pretty awful on the road (5.68).     I want to see how they do over the full season.

[SteveA]

58 minutes ago, Frobby said:

To me, the jury's still out a little on this one.    So far, Miranda has been better than I would have guessed.    If that continues, then it will certainly turn out to have been a bad trade.    This year Miranda's been very good at home (2.36 ERA) and pretty awful on the road (5.68).     I want to see how they do over the full season.

And you do have to factor in ballparks as well.   If they were to put up near equal stats that would be advantage Miley, IMO.