How to do a quick rebuild.

[99ct]

27 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

I think desperate teams overpay for mediocre upgrades.  Like we did with Parra though Davies wasn't a big prospect.  The best teams to trade for imo is teams with loaded farm systems and young players when you have a big piece.  The Astros have a great young team no doubt but also have a talented farm that could hurt them less with losing a couple good prospects more then a team with a weak farm.  You also never know how many chances you may get.  Everyone thought the Cubs were easily the best team in baseball this season and now they are struggling around .500 this year and major pitching issues.

How about the LA Dodgers? Honest question -- I haven't checked in with them in a while. Seems to me they're gonna be in a dog fight in the NL West, plus they have the $$$ to potentially extend Manny. They seem like a good fit. Not to mention that if we really gotta trade Manny, I'd prefer to see him only once every three years

[bpilktree]

The Indians seem to be a team that would make some sense as a trade parter for Castillo.  They are getting nothing at all from catcher with third worst Ops an position.  The only issue is the have a top heavy farm some very goood prospects and then a rather big drop off. Their guys that are around what Castillo may bring have struggled or hurt.  Yandy Diaz could make some sense about major league ready 3b guy  or Yu Chang Chang SS in AA.

[bpilktree]

12 minutes ago, 99ct said:

How about the LA Dodgers? Honest question -- I haven't checked in with them in a while. Seems to me they're gonna be in a dog fight in the NL West, plus they have the $$$ to potentially extend Manny. They seem like a good fit. Not to mention that if we really gotta trade Manny, I'd prefer to see him only once every three years

I don't think they are fit for Manny they have Turner who the signed to big 4 year deal at third and Seeger at SS.  They also have depleated farm a lot and nothing in top 50.  Most their prospects now are few years away.

[bpilktree]

2 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

I don't think they are fit for Manny they have Turner who the signed to big 4 year deal at third and Seeger at SS.  They also have depleated farm a lot and nothing in top 50.  Most their prospects now are few years away.

They do have Urias but like said they seem set on left side of infield.

[JohnD]

*Looks at AAA caught stealing stats*

The idea Sisco is the starting catcher here is silly.  His bat will give him a shot somewhere, but his defense will make sure it's not behind the plate.

[Roll Tide]

4 minutes ago, JohnD said:

*Looks at AAA caught stealing stats*

The idea Sisco is the starting catcher here is silly.  His bat will give him a shot somewhere, but his defense will make sure it's not behind the plate.

Was thinking the same thing. He's only got a spot at DH if you move Trumbo 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, JohnD said:

*Looks at AAA caught stealing stats*

The idea Sisco is the starting catcher here is silly.  His bat will give him a shot somewhere, but his defense will make sure it's not behind the plate.

Silly?

Hardly.

If his bat plays and if the rest of his defense is adequate his difficulties in controlling the running game should not and will not stop him from Catching. 

[oriolediehard]

What about not trading our prospects for over the hill players.  Dan Duquette's scheme. 

I am sick of seeing our trades become good on other teams.  It hurts.

http://thebaltimorewire.com/2017/06/18/baltimore-orioles-former-orioles/

[Lucky_13]

12 hours ago, bpilktree said:

The Indians seem to be a team that would make some sense as a trade parter for Castillo.  They are getting nothing at all from catcher with third worst Ops an position.  The only issue is the have a top heavy farm some very goood prospects and then a rather big drop off. Their guys that are around what Castillo may bring have struggled or hurt.  Yandy Diaz could make some sense about major league ready 3b guy  or Yu Chang Chang SS in AA.

Detroit could be a fit as well. Their farm system isn't incredibly strong, I don't think.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

It depends on his bat and how bad his throwing is.    If he bats .270 with 5 home runs and a .700 ish OPS and the league is taking advantage of him on the base paths, I don't think he lasts very long as a starting catcher in this league or at this level.

That would be covered in the if the bats plays portion you didn't bold.  Obviously if his bat isn't at least solidly above average for a catcher he isn't going to have much of a role on a ML club.

Just folks are talking about his troubles against the running game as a complete deal breaker.

[bpilktree]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

*Looks at AAA caught stealing stats*

The idea Sisco is the starting catcher here is silly.  His bat will give him a shot somewhere, but his defense will make sure it's not behind the plate.

There are plenty of guys that are starting in the majors that have the same percentage of caught stealing.  You can manage the  running game with the pitchers helping out and giving you catcher the best chance.  Bundy does a great job of managing the running game which helps out.  Gausman is the same way in almost eliminating the running game.  Miley complete shuts it down granted he may not be back.  Schoop is also one of the best taggers in the game.  Tilman is also another guy that hold runners well.  We may have to look at that when bringing guys in as Sisco not a great thrower.  The pitchers make huge difference.  Writers was always a 35 percent guy for us he is just 25 percent now in Washington.

[bpilktree]

1 hour ago, oriolediehard said:

What about not trading our prospects for over the hill players.  Dan Duquette's scheme. 

I am sick of seeing our trades become good on other teams.  It hurts.

http://thebaltimorewire.com/2017/06/18/baltimore-orioles-former-orioles/

That list is nothing special.  ERod has better decent but still has that injury issue with his knee and he got us a shut down reliever.  The complaint I have with that trade is they should have resigned him and let O'Day walk.   Hader is still in the minors til just few days ago but has struggled at AAA with control.  He got us Bud Norris who was a key to us making that playoff run in 2014.   Davies has been ok in the National League but an ErA of near 5 this year in the weak Central.  That was the one trade I didn't like but again not a huge blow he is back end of rotation guy.  Miranda has been pretty good but he wasn't doing much here and was a 27 year old that hadn't been in the majors.   When you are trying to compete year in year out you have to give up prospects.

[Can_of_corn]

Please explain to me how Norris was key?  Orioles' used six starters that season and five of them put up very similar stats.  How is one of those five a key to the success of a team that won its division by double digits.

[JohnD]

Sisco has a .511 OPS against lefties in AAA snd he plays defense like someone who won't play catcher in the big leagues.  

[Teddy OBP]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.    The Orioles will hold onto their core players including Machado and Britton, try to add to the starting pitching in the off season and take one more try next year.    Miley, Jimenez, Tillman, Smith, Castillo (maybe) off the books.   Arbitration raises for Machado and Schoop (Britton gets a minimal raise in this system).     The O's would have 3 open spots in their rotation and about 15M to fix it.   That's assuming Bundy and Gausman are in the rotation.    After the 2018 season, Machado, Britton, and Jones are free agents.     Most of our best prospects will be in AA or AAA next year.

In other words, it would take a miracle to fix this rotation going into next year but remember 2012 when Miguel Gonzalez came out of nowhere, Chen came cheaply from the Japanese League, and Tillman finally emerged as a ML pitcher.    That would be akin to Hunter Harvey coming back healthy and being ready to contribute in 2018 and two other surprises.

A few other posts pointed out that Miley has a reasonable option next year. If he's not terrible for the rest of the year he might stay.

It would be nice to see Manny and Tillman's prices come down as a result of their issues this season but I'm not optimistic about that.

Among the most frustrating is not being able to point to what the issue is with Gausman and Manny. Tillmans injury kind of explains his season but it's awful not knowing if Gausman is going to be good again or if Manny is really the superstar we thought he was.