Collapse of the Rotation By the Numbers

[webbrick2010]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

When Dan is telling other teams he's buying, it's time for full doom and gloom mode.

Yeah.... what remaining talent can he give away to bring in another way past prime veteran for another failed second 1/2 run. I can hardly wait. I figure we will give away one or more of the following:

Cisco, Mountcastle, Mullins, Hays

We'll hold onto DJ Stewart as a shining example of how to waste a first round pick

[wildcard]

I'd  go to a 8 man pen.  

Let the starters go 5.  Then go into the sixth on a batter by batter basis.   If they give up a hit or a walk pull them.

Option Washington and bring up a reliever and rely on the pen to shut down the other team.

O'Day is coming back on Friday. That will help.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I'd  go to a 8 man pen.  

Let the starters go 5.  Then go into the sixth on a batter by batter basis.   If they give up a hit or a walk pull them.

Option Washington and bring up a reliever and rely on the pen to shut down the other team.

O'Day is coming back on Friday. That will help.

 

 

Look at CPT optimism here, thinking the starters can go five. 

[webbrick2010]

22 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I'd  go to a 8 man pen.  

Let the starters go 5.  Then go into the sixth on a batter by batter basis.   If they give up a hit or a walk pull them.

Option Washington and bring up a reliever and rely on the pen to shut down the other team.

O'Day is coming back on Friday. That will help.

Will he back for a week, maybe two... if he only pitches every 4th day?

 

 

[Frobby]

32 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Look at CPT optimism here, thinking the starters can go five. 

Hey, they've managed to go 5 in 50 of 69 games.    I was actually surprised when I counted it up and found the number was that high.    How pathetic is that?

[spiritof66]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hey, they've managed to go 5 in 50 of 69 games.    I was actually surprised when I counted it up and found the number was that high.    How pathetic is that?

Part of that is Buck's insistence on getting a starter through 5 (sometimes to get a chance for the W) even when he's being hit hard. I'm not saying he's wrong -- though I often think so at the time. 

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Part of that is Buck's insistence on getting a starter through 5 (sometimes to get a chance for the W) even when he's being hit hard. I'm not saying he's wrong -- though I often think so at the time. 

I think the choice is often dictated by the fact that you can only ask your bullpen to cover so many total innings over the long haul.   Our relievers have pitched the most innings of any team in the AL.

[spiritof66]

37 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think the choice is often dictated by the fact that you can only ask your bullpen to cover so many total innings over the long haul.   Our relievers have pitched the most innings of any team in the AL.

I think that's often been the case.  The point I was trying to make is the fact that an Oriole starter lasted 5 innings doesn't necessarily mean he's pitched anything like an effective five innings. 

[Frobby]

54 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I think that's often been the case.  The point I was trying to make is the fact that an Oriole starter lasted 5 innings doesn't necessarily mean he's pitched anything like an effective five innings. 

Hard to argue with that.    Just look at June 13-17:

Asher 5.0 IP, 6 R

Bundy 5.0 IP, 5 R (4 ER)

Tillman 5.1 IP, 5 R

Gausman 5.2 IP, 5 R

Miley 5.2 IP, 6 R (5 ER)

Worth noting: Tillman, Gausman and Miley left with 5 runners on base, and the middle relievers allowed all 5 to score.

 

 

[psugisher]

Any blame ever going to fall on Roger McDowell?  Every starter has regressed.  If adjustments have been made, they aren't working. Our starters haven't been competitive most nights.  They will never be a dominant staff but if guys can get through 5-6 innings giving up 3-4 runs we'll win a bunch of game because of the bullpen when healthy and our bats, which haven't been great this year either.  So the starters need to improve to the point of being ok, we need to get the back end of the bullpen healthy (not many better than Givens, O'day, Brach, Britton) and we need our offense to put it together.  Manny will hit better and I think that'll help get things going for everyone else.  This group has seen a lot the last 5 years.  I think they can draw on all the ups and downs and pull it together to at least make a run in the second half. One game under 500 right now means you haven't played yourself out of it to this point.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, psugisher said:

Any blame ever going to fall on Roger McDowell? 

Did he fail miserably as a pitching coach before?

Pretty sure he didn't.

I don't know why he would suddenly be bad at his job.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Hard to argue with that.    Just look at June 13-17:

Asher 5.0 IP, 6 R

Bundy 5.0 IP, 5 R (4 ER)

Tillman 5.1 IP, 5 R

Gausman 5.2 IP, 5 R

Miley 5.2 IP, 6 R (5 ER)

Worth noting: Tillman, Gausman and Miley left with 5 runners on base, and the middle relievers allowed all 5 to score.

 

 

In the past, I've frequently thought Buck stayed with his starter too long. In a close game, sixth or seventh inning, with the starter weakening and tough hitters coming up, it at times has seemed obvious to me that you should bring in O'Day or Givens to put out the high-leverage fire, even if those guys were overworked a bit. Buck sometimes didn't do that soon enough for my taste.

I recognize that it's different when, with a starter laboring after 90 pitches in the fifth, Buck stays with him, even though at times I probably have said to myself, and maybe even posted, "Get him out of there." But are you better off with a wilting Gausman or a fresh Nuno or Ynoa? Damned if I know.

[Going Underground]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Did he fail miserably as a pitching coach before?

Pretty sure he didn't.

I don't know why he would suddenly be bad at his job.

Just one writers thoughts. I don't know.

 

Stop me if you’ve heard this before, but the Braves are rebuilding around young pitching. That McDowell had struggled to take a hot young pitcher and develop him into a proven No. 1 starter troubled this administration. (The previous one as well.) Jair Jurrjens and Tommy Hanson and Mike Minor rose fast and then, like Keyser Soze, were gone. They didn’t just disappoint. They went from being the apples of the Braves’ eye to being unable to hold a big-league job.

It was also true that, under McDowell, both Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy had two rounds of Tommy John surgery, which Will Carroll, who has written knowingly and extensively on baseball injuries, claims was without precedent. For one starter have two TJs within four years is rare; for two to do it in the same organization — for each to suffer a second breakdown within a 24-hour span in spring training — made you wonder if this had more to do with bad management than rotten luck.

 

http://markbradley.blog.myajc.com/2016/10/07/mcdowell-had-become-the-wrong-pitching-coach-for-these-braves/

[Yossarian]

With the Orioles luck, they will find a team(s) to take Tillman, Gausman, and Bundy for some promising young pitchers.  Then the young guys don't pan out and Tillman, Gausman, and Bundy turn into Jake Arieta.

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

Just one writers thoughts. I don't know.

 

Stop me if you’ve heard this before, but the Braves are rebuilding around young pitching. That McDowell had struggled to take a hot young pitcher and develop him into a proven No. 1 starter troubled this administration. (The previous one as well.) Jair Jurrjens and Tommy Hanson and Mike Minor rose fast and then, like Keyser Soze, were gone. They didn’t just disappoint. They went from being the apples of the Braves’ eye to being unable to hold a big-league job.

It was also true that, under McDowell, both Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy had two rounds of Tommy John surgery, which Will Carroll, who has written knowingly and extensively on baseball injuries, claims was without precedent. For one starter have two TJs within four years is rare; for two to do it in the same organization — for each to suffer a second breakdown within a 24-hour span in spring training — made you wonder if this had more to do with bad management than rotten luck.

 

http://markbradley.blog.myajc.com/2016/10/07/mcdowell-had-become-the-wrong-pitching-coach-for-these-braves/

I've also heard that one criticism is that he does his best work with guys who are sinker/slider guys like he was, and not so well with guys with a different type of arsenal.