It's July 2- Internationale!

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

This is how I recall it as well.  And IIRC Poitevint is the one who made the horrible recommendation of the kid from South Korea that we brought here and found out he couldn't pitch, and ultimately got us "banned" from there.  

He also signed that softball player from New Zealand, who was a complete bust.  I'm not sure what role he played in recommending Yoon Suk-Min (bust) or Hyun Soo Kim (decent if unspectacular signing).      

[Going Underground]

Furthermore, it appears the team is using old school scouting perspectives (i.e., big man on the island) where having a well known and established scout would result in talent flocking to perform for you.  Much attention was given for the team signing Fred Ferreira, the Shark of the Caribbean.  He was one of the trailblazing scouts in Latin America and is known for signing several excellent talents (e.g., Vladimir Guerrero).  Ferreira would be a great manager and caretaker of the international program by teaching younger scouts how to ply their trade, assuming Ferreira has moved with the times and is not banking off his stature.  That said, the few sources I do have said that the Orioles are one of the least represented teams in the Dominican.  My sources do not extend beyond that country, but the team has sat out on top level Venezuelan talent as well and trade journals like Baseball America have expressed that it would be in the Orioles' best interest to engage more fully in Venezuela.

Perhaps, the team is trying to find value on fringe markets.  They have seemed to be dabbling in markets like Guatemala, Taiwan, New Zealand, and their tumultuous efforts in South Korea.  Again though, outside of the failed Seung-min Kim attempted signing with a 550k bonus which fell apart because the team did not follow well established rules and because the scouting reports handed to them by their famed Pacific Rim scout did not match the player that wound up in the United States for the team to get a second look on.  In fact, that is actually one of the elements that appears to be part of the Orioles strategy.  Acting fast on few looks.  More recently, the team dropped 800k on Dariel Alvarez even though no other club appeared faintly interested in him at that price.  If that is what is happening, it is an interesting mode of operation.  Find guys who come up nuts in their tryouts for teams and be willing to spend twice as much before the player can get in shape.  Maybe it will work.  That said, I have my doubts that Alvarez or Henry Urrutia will make any noticeable impact on the future of this franchise.  Perhaps that 1.6 MM could have been spent better on elite young talent.

 

http://camdendepot.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-orioles-avoid-much-of-high-level.html

[stef]

23 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

 

It is frustrating. Don't know if that's just on DD or if he is being led by Angelos on this? 

 

"Dan Duquette, the team’s executive vice-president of baseball operations, said the lack of spending on international amateurs is an ownership decision."

–http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/notes-baltimore-orioles-need-farm-system-to-develop-gems-041817

[weams]

21 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

 

This is pathetic. Yankees and BoSox sign players and small market teams make signings. While our owner sits on his behind and doesn't do a damn thing to help the O's. Sorry if I have overstepped the rules of this board by as a fan I am pissed.

Do you feel the Orioles small market Baltimore total payroll should compete with NY and Boston? Should the Orioles lower the budget in MLB and MiLB expenses to pay for Dominican and Venezuelan 16-year-olds? Serious question for all. 

[bobmc]

I'd look to further mine the Brazilian and Bahamian markets for talent.  ;-)

I can see where they are coming from in some respects (the payoff is far off and risky) - but if we truly had competent talent evaluators, wouldn't we want to spend a few million each year on some of these players?  Is it worse than forking over the same coin for the Edwin Jacksons of the world?

It's not my money but it sure seems like we should.

[glenn__davis]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Do you feel the Orioles small market Baltimore total payroll should compete with NY and Boston? Should the Orioles lower the budget in MLB and MiLB expenses to pay for Dominican and Venezuelan 16-year-olds? Serious question for all. 

The Rays signed one of the highest rated kids.  The White Sox have been pretty active.  Rangers, too.  It's not just the big market teams that are signing these guys.

I'm not saying they need to be all in on it if they don't believe in it, but to answer your question, do I believe the Orioles would be better served by investing a small percentage of the Davis/Trumbo contracts yearly into this market?  Yes, I very much do.

[waroriole]

This thread is in the wrong forum...

[eddie83]

2 hours ago, stef said:

 

"Dan Duquette, the team’s executive vice-president of baseball operations, said the lack of spending on international amateurs is an ownership decision."

–http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/notes-baltimore-orioles-need-farm-system-to-develop-gems-041817

Exactly. Not changing until Angelos is no longer the owner. Real shame but nothing can be done about it.  

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, stef said:

 

"Dan Duquette, the team’s executive vice-president of baseball operations, said the lack of spending on international amateurs is an ownership decision."

–http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/notes-baltimore-orioles-need-farm-system-to-develop-gems-041817

Thank you for that info

[weams]

1 hour ago, glenn__davis said:

The Rays signed one of the highest rated kids.  The White Sox have been pretty active.  Rangers, too.  It's not just the big market teams that are signing these guys.

I'm not saying they need to be all in on it if they don't believe in it, but to answer your question, do I believe the Orioles would be better served by investing a small percentage of the Davis/Trumbo contracts yearly into this market?  Yes, I very much do.

So a 140 million payroll then?

[glenn__davis]

17 minutes ago, weams said:

So a 140 million payroll then?

It wouldn't be nearly that much of a payroll hit.  What are we at now, like 160 or so?  I think our typical bonus slot pool is in the 2-3 million range.  Obviously we can go a bit above that.  We don't even spend that, trading some it away and just not using the rest of it as far as I can tell.  That is sort of the whole point.  It's not an extremely expensive market, due to the fact that these guys are so far away.  

But in fairness, I don't think money is at all the reason in this case.  Again, compared to the money they're willing to throw at fairly mediocre players in the past, this team just doesn't fit the penny-pinching mold.  Angelos has some deeper reason in my mind for why  he chooses not to engage in this market.

[hoosiers]

4 hours ago, stef said:

 

"Dan Duquette, the team’s executive vice-president of baseball operations, said the lack of spending on international amateurs is an ownership decision."

–http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/notes-baltimore-orioles-need-farm-system-to-develop-gems-041817

That's a bunch of horse bleep.  Our prior GM had scouts in Latin America, utilized a cross-checking system with US-based scouts and found EdRod and Schoop within a couple of years.  DD changed that system - brought in FredF and expanded our LatAm signings to include two bonus babies - by our standards - in one year - with Reyes and Ofelky.  

If our GM can does these few things, but can't impress upon an owner the benefits of signing international players, then it is on our GM - one thousand percent.  Sure, I will acknowledge that an owner tends to hire someone who thinks similarly, but it is no secret who our starting second baseman is and how he was acquired or the benefits of FredF finding MiGon.  Convincing our owner to spend internationally should not be a big effort and the failure to spend internationally today must fall squarely on the shoulders of our GM.  Teams are spending tens of millions of dollars internationally and paying big taxes to MLB for these signings.  Just last year, the Padres signed an international player for over $10M and then still spend over $1M on several others.  I would be among the first to argue that the investment return on the $M international guys is fairly low - but there is plenty of opportunity for us to sign a half dozen guys annually in the $250k-$750k range.

What is obvious to the rest of the industry should be made clear to our owner.  The payroll would not have had to be ramped up to $150M or so if our owner had been investing $5M internationally for the prior five seasons.  

[TradeAngelos]

18 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

That's a bunch of horse bleep.  Our prior GM had scouts in Latin America, utilized a cross-checking system with US-based scouts and found EdRod and Schoop within a couple of years.  DD changed that system - brought in FredF and expanded our LatAm signings to include two bonus babies - by our standards - in one year - with Reyes and Ofelky.  

If our GM can does these few things, but can't impress upon an owner the benefits of signing international players, then it is on our GM - one thousand percent.  Sure, I will acknowledge that an owner tends to hire someone who thinks similarly, but it is no secret who our starting second baseman is and how he was acquired or the benefits of FredF finding MiGon.  Convincing our owner to spend internationally should not be a big effort and the failure to spend internationally today must fall squarely on the shoulders of our GM.  Teams are spending tens of millions of dollars internationally and paying big taxes to MLB for these signings.  Just last year, the Padres signed an international player for over $10M and then still spend over $1M on several others.  I would be among the first to argue that the investment return on the $M international guys is fairly low - but there is plenty of opportunity for us to sign a half dozen guys annually in the $250k-$750k range.

What is obvious to the rest of the industry should be made clear to our owner.  The payroll would not have had to be ramped up to $150M or so if our owner had been investing $5M internationally for the prior five seasons.  

I knew this was coming, only took 5 posts. 

Maybe one day people will realize that Dan has a BOSS, who tells him what to do and how to operate. Novel concept I know. 

[Tryptamine]

9 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Try telling that to the Red Sox.

I'm surprised the Orioles don't go with the Cub method. Mexican talent has a huge loop hole. Say a kid is going to cost 1.2M to sign, well in Mexico the common practice is the handlers get 75% and the kid gets 25%. MLB rules state that for Mexico only the money that the kid receives is counted towards a team's international spending cap.  So in this case a 1.2M high end prospect only takes up  300K of a team's international payroll. That's how the Cubs were able to afford top 50 international prospects this year despite being in the punishment phase where they can't spend me than 300K on any player.

[Nevermore]

11 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

This is how I recall it as well.  And IIRC Poitevint is the one who made the horrible recommendation of the kid from South Korea that we brought here and found out he couldn't pitch, and ultimately got us "banned" from there.  

I'm to the point where I'm pretty much numb to the fact that the O's have abandoned the international market, but I would love if someone from the club would just explain it.  I know they sort of have with some vague platitudes over the years, but there has to be more to it.

I don't even know what these "vague platitudes" are.  Could some one please explain? Is it a matter of budget or political beliefs or neither or both?