Dan wants to reload, not rebuild

[spiritof66]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think you're letting Duquette off too easily.    Sure the owner gets to make the call as to the direction of the team.   But it's up to the GM to recommend a course of action and advocate for it vigorously.    Do you have the impression that DD disagrees with the direction the team is taking?    I sure don't.   

I don't know what direction Duquette thinks the team should be pursuing, what he would do with the team if left to his own devices, or what strategy he has recommended to the owner. Maybe he has advocated vigorously for another direction, maybe he hasn't, and maybe he's been told that the team is not going to rebuild and he should keep any contrary opinions to himself. 

Based on the limited information I've seen, I am confident that Duquette thinks it's a bad idea not to invest much more in international player development but has been told (or has decided on his own) that it's useless to advocate that the Orioles participate meaningfully in that market. I am pretty sure that he wanted to try to move some veteran players at the trade deadline this year (and he apparently did try to trade Britton) but was blocked from doing that by the owner, and that he was not in favor of the Davis and Trumbo contracts but had no say in those matters. But really there's no way of knowing -- maybe some day we'll find out more. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion that Duquette agrees with the team's direction, but I'm not sure what that opinion is based on.

We have an 88-year-old owner who thinks he's smarter than the other owners (and pretty much everyone else). In 24 years of ownership he hasn't won anything. It's understandable that he wants to win now. I believe, but again can't know, that any recommendations Duquette might have made to him or positions he might have advocated as to the general direction of the club in the past couple of years have had zero impact.

The analogy to the Tigers is apt. (Mike Ilitch was able and/or willing to spend more than Angelos, and his Tigers made it the World Series twice.) Detroit's win-now-at any-cost approach changed as Mike Ilitch became ill and ceded control to his son, Chris, and with his death earlier this year. So the Tigers can at least try to move on, whether they stay in the hands of the Ilitch family or are sold. 

https://www.spiroavenue.com/single-post/2017/07/03/For-Sale-Soon-Chris-Ilitch-Looks-to-a-Future-Without-the-Detroit-Tigers    

[oriole]

5 hours ago, eddie83 said:

They could easily be back in the playoffs next year. The Twins lost over a 100 games last year. 

I think the concern with many fans is putting all your eggs in a one year basket while not looking at the big picture.  

Just my opinion but one year is all we have left to root for and its not my money but go ahead and put all the eggs in the 2018 basket. I do not care about 2019 or beyond at this time. It's going to be a long time before they compete consistently again regardless of what they do this offseason. Davis is on the verge of Ryan Howard's late years and no real pitching prospects around the corner. I think you gotta make one more run for it while you have Machado/Jones/Britton and then you sell next offseason and hopefully guys like Gausman, Bundy, and Mancini do well enough to bring back some prospects to go for it again in a few years.

[eddie83]

4 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

The Twins were in such a different place last year. Good core of young players, no bad contracts. Could be wrong but I see it getting worse before it gets better for us.

I think we have some good young players. Part of the problem is how close Manny and Schoop are to FA.  The Twins were brutal last year. 

The difference between a 75 win type of team and high 80's win team is not all that dramatic.  

[eddie83]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

If DD is able to extend Manny, I would go ahead and make DD GM for life. 

I don't think Dan plays much of a role in extending Manny. Up to the owner.  

[jabba72]

Dont know how they can reload without Machado. Is this a one year reload? 

[Going Underground]

4 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Yeah, I'm sure he's taking less money due to his underperformance.

Yup,he's t-shirts say Underperformance not Under Armour. 

[Babypowder]

23 hours ago, oriole said:

I'm surprised at the enormous amount of negativity on this thread. Gausman an Bundy could improve next year...we still have one year left of one of the top 5 players in the game plus multiple above average players around him. I get they finished the season dreadfully awful but that doesn't mean next year will be the same. Get some decent pitching and we could be in the playoffs. 

Here is the list of definitively above average players that were around Manny in 2017:

Schoop

Beckham

[Luke-OH]

19 hours ago, Slappy said:

I'm glad they are reloading.  They are not competent enough as an organization to pull off a Houston or Washington style tank-and-rebuild.  We'd just get ourselves back into a 15 year losing streak like the last time we "tried" it.

I'd argue that it takes more competency to effectively reload than it does to do a complete rebuild.  I'd also argue the team waited a year too long to reload.

[FanSince88]

Ok, fine.  If that's the way it's going to be, then please for the love of God get some real starting pitchers.  

[FanSince88]

17 hours ago, jabba72 said:

Dont know how they can reload without Machado. Is this a one year reload? 

Manny is neither necessary nor sufficient to this team's success.  The bigger concern than losing Manny is the Davis albatross contract.  With or without Manny, if CD cannot give us at least 1-2 WAR per year we are wasting precious resources on him that would be better used elsewhere, and will likely prevent us from making a deep playoff run.  

[oriole]

2 hours ago, Babypowder said:

Here is the list of definitively above average players that were around Manny in 2017:

Schoop

Beckham

That's looks like multiple above average players to me

 

Anyways, I would probably add Mancini to that list even with his weak defense. Castillo was pretty damn good this year though he likely gone next season and a case could be made that Trumbo and even my least favorite Oriole, Chris Davis, have the makings to have another above average season despite an awful 2017.

[Ohfan67]

2 hours ago, Babypowder said:

Here is the list of definitively above average players that were around Manny in 2017:

Schoop

Beckham

Mancini and Castillo should be on the list, especially Castillo IMO. By some measures Jones and even Smith were above average. Five relief pitchers were above average...so there's that.

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, FanSince88 said:

Manny is neither necessary nor sufficient to this team's success.  The bigger concern than losing Manny is the Davis albatross contract.  With or without Manny, if CD cannot give us at least 1-2 WAR per year we are wasting precious resources on him that would be better used elsewhere, and will likely prevent us from making a deep playoff run.  

True dat. Baseball is incredibly weird. Manny only played in 82 games in 2014.

 

Starting pitching, on the other hand, is a necessity. 

[Ohfan67]

Comparing 2014 versus 2017 is pretty interesting. The Orioles still have a very good bullpen and the offense is adequate. In 2014 the Orioles had five starting pitchers with ERA+ > 100. This year they had one (Bundy at a relatively pathetic 102). It's all about starting pitching. I am in favor of rebuilding, but the Orioles are determined not to. I'm rooting hard for DD to find those starting pitchers. 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Comparing 2014 versus 2017 is pretty interesting. The Orioles still have a very good bullpen and the offense is adequate. In 2014 the Orioles had five starting pitchers with ERA+ > 100. This year they had one (Bundy at a relatively pathetic 102). It's all about starting pitching. I am in favor of rebuilding, but the Orioles are determined not to. I'm rooting hard for DD to find those starting pitchers. 

The defense was much better in 2014.