Orioles extend offers to bring back coaching staff

[webbrick2010]

The Red Sox win the division and fire their manager... and I assume many if not all of their coaches

The Nationals win the division and fire their manager... and I assume many if not all of their coaches

The Orioles finish last in their division... and bring back all of their coaches and manager and GM

Good to see the accountability in the O's organization!

[Aglets]

A very compelling question is why did so many guys regress in 2017 compared to the previous year.

Tillman definitely regressed the worst, and maybe that was mostly injury related.

Miley led all of MLB in walks though, and had one of the worst years of his career.

Even Ubaldo who is generally terrible, had the worst ERA of his entire career (6.81) when his previous high was 5.44.

It's probably some combination of Wieters being gone, the new pitching coach, and these guys just generally being poor pitchers but I'm not sure how any of us can really understand how all of these things interact.

FWIW Wieters had a CERA of 4.00 with the O's last year.

In 2017 Joseph had a 4.26 and Beef Welington had a 5.65.   Maybe I should look up what those numbers mean.

[Frobby]

47 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

The Red Sox win the division and fire their manager... and I assume many if not all of their coaches

The Nationals win the division and fire their manager... and I assume many if not all of their coaches

The Orioles finish last in their division... and bring back all of their coaches and manager and GM

Good to see the accountability in the O's organization!

And don’t forget Girardi.

But, I don’t necessarily think those franchises made good decisions.   And I don’t think one bad season by a team is necessarily a good reason to fire a manager who, over the previous five seasons, had gotten a lot out of his talent.    I’m okay with “accountability” over things a manager can control, but scapegoating a good manager because the end result wasn’t what you wanted is a mistake.   

[tntoriole]

These kinds of threads never go anywhere really for me.   It always divides up into the group who feel the coaching staff has responsibility to some great degree for the results of a season and those who feel that coaching staff has virtually no responsibility for the performance of players and the results of a season. 

 

Yes, the players did not perform.  But if the coaches make no difference, then if I am the old man paying their salaries, I have to be asking myself, why in the heck am I paying for them at all?  I mean if good teams win no matter how bad the coaches are and bad teams lose no matter how good the coaches are, then why have them at all?   Is their only job expectation to be popular and support millionaire athletes and show up at games in a non intoxicated state, to shake hands after wins, commiserate after losses, review film, stand in the batting cages or during side sessions?   Or do they have ANY outcome measures of improving performance of individual team functions that are in ANY way correlated to the performance of the team?    I have no way of knowing because the Orioles don't share their metrics for performance evaluation of their coaches with us fans...so, all I have to go on as a fan is does the team win?   If not, then give me the next guy up.     It is not fair, I realize, but that is show business.  

[pastorfan]

On 11/1/2017 at 1:41 PM, AZRon said:

Have you noticed that McDowell, on his mound visits,  virtually never gives the pitcher the encouraging pat on the back or makes some other supportive act of physical touch?  To my recollection,  such actions are  de rigueur for other pitching coaches when visiting the mound. 

You are absolutely right. I advocate that next year he "hug" each pitcher before returning to the dugout. I have no doubt that will take us to the next level.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, pastorfan said:

You are absolutely right. I advocate that next year he "hug" each pitcher before returning to the dugout. I have no doubt that will take us to the next level.

A lot of times this year, a face slap would have been more in order.   

[Redskins Rick]

22 hours ago, Frobby said:

And don’t forget Girardi.

But, I don’t necessarily think those franchises made good decisions.   And I don’t think one bad season by a team is necessarily a good reason to fire a manager who, over the previous five seasons, had gotten a lot out of his talent.    I’m okay with “accountability” over things a manager can control, but scapegoating a good manager because the end result wasn’t what you wanted is a mistake.   

There was a detail article in MASN two weeks ago, (Sorry too lazy to look it up)

It details how the Nationals dont believe in longer than 2 year deals to their manager, no matter what their resume is. Pretty crazy, if you ask me.

Almost sounds Angelos like and his fear of contract to SP, back in Mussina's time.

[Frobby]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

There was a detail article in MASN two weeks ago, (Sorry too lazy to look it up)

It details how the Nationals dont believe in longer than 2 year deals to their manager, no matter what their resume is. Pretty crazy, if you ask me.

Almost sounds Angelos like and his fear of contract to SP, back in Mussina's time.

They just gave a three year deal to rookie manager Dave Martinez.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Frobby said:

They just gave a three year deal to rookie manager Dave Martinez.

LOL, Maybe they read that article in MASN.

Thanks, I didnt know they did.

[JourneyFan]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

A lot of times this year, a face slap would have been more in order.   

Or, even better, doing to the pitcher what Hulk did to Loki in The Avengers. That's what *I* wanted to do most of the time.

[SteveA]

On 11/1/2017 at 9:39 AM, Going Underground said:

Multiple pitchers on the staff campaigned for McDowell’s return, and first baseman Chris Davisdid the same with Coolbaugh and Dickerson. Davis also vowed to work out with Coolbaugh this winter in Texas and make certain mechanical adjustments at the plate.

 

I guess this might be true but I did not see many articles during the year that McDowell helped so and so pitcher. Like to know who these multiple pitchers are. 

Kevin Gausman had a big turnaround after his awful first half.   I said back in July that my main evaluation of McDowell would be based on whether he could "fix" Gausman, because there was nothing wrong with him physically or talent-wise.

So based on the criteria that I put forth in July, I guess I have to give him a good grade for that.

Tillman's problems were physical.

Ubaldo and Miley sucked... I don't think any PC could have been enough of a miracle worker to make them "good".   But maybe they could have been better than they were?   Or is it just utter lack of talent there?

[Tx Oriole]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

A lot of times this year, a face slap would have been more in order.   

For DD.

[osfan83]

21 hours ago, tntoriole said:

These kinds of threads never go anywhere really for me.   It always divides up into the group who feel the coaching staff has responsibility to some great degree for the results of a season and those who feel that coaching staff has virtually no responsibility for the performance of players and the results of a season. 

 

Yes, the players did not perform.  But if the coaches make no difference, then if I am the old man paying their salaries, I have to be asking myself, why in the heck am I paying for them at all?  I mean if good teams win no matter how bad the coaches are and bad teams lose no matter how good the coaches are, then why have them at all?   Is their only job expectation to be popular and support millionaire athletes and show up at games in a non intoxicated state, to shake hands after wins, commiserate after losses, review film, stand in the batting cages or during side sessions?   Or do they have ANY outcome measures of improving performance of individual team functions that are in ANY way correlated to the performance of the team?    I have no way of knowing because the Orioles don't share their metrics for performance evaluation of their coaches with us fans...so, all I have to go on as a fan is does the team win?   If not, then give me the next guy up.     It is not fair, I realize, but that is show business.  

Being a Cleveland Browns fan, I see the value in bringing in a new coaching staff every year until you get desired results. It was worked for the Browns...the dumb Steelers hold on to coaches forever, and look how poorly they have performed over the past couple of decades. 

[NCRaven]

Could Castillo's catching have figured into the "regression" exhibited by our pitchers?  McDowell was not the only new element in the pitching equation.

[Tx Oriole]

8 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Could Castillo's catching have figured into the "regression" exhibited by our pitchers?  McDowell was not the only new element in the pitching equation.

I wouldn't blame him. Blame the pitchers. They stink at pitching.