Mancini is a ROY finalist

[Ruzious]

2 hours ago, Number5 said:

You are right, in that Winfield was tall, but I'm pretty sure that he was considerably more slender in his early years than Judge is.  Remember, he was an All-American basketball player at Minnesota.  BB-ref lists Winfield at 6-6, 220 and Judge at 6-7, 282.  Pretty big difference there.

Since you brought up basketball - look at Lebron James - who's roughly the same size as Judge - playing a more physically demanding sport - has been playing in the NBA since he was a teenager, is about ready to turn 33, and still arguably the best player in the NBA.  

Everyone was skinnier - except for the aforementioned Frank Howard - in Winfield's day.  Strength and weight-training and caloric intake methods were nowhere near what they are today.  

Bottom line, if he Judge gets injured - he gets injured, but I'm not buying any of the arguments posed in this thread that Judge's size is going to limit his durability.  When he slows down in his early to mid 30's, people are going to say I told ya - a big man like that is never gonna last.    

 

 

[Ruzious]

55 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Judge 6-7 286 lbs,  Winfield 6-6 220 lbs, Howard 6-7 255 lbs.

That list isn't complete without El Gordo's weight.  C'mon, what's it up to?

[tntoriole]

6 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I predict that defense peaks early and that Trey isn't likely to improve significantly in the field.  I don't recall seeing many plays that he didn't make that made me go "A more experienced outfielder would have made that play.".

With subtle angles and jumps to the ball that make hard plays look easy and make impossible catches possible, I would think that more than a game or two in a particular opposing stadium, tiers, decks, lighting, sounds..etc.  will hopefully lead to a bit of improvement in 2018.     It is not just raw athleticism that determines being a good outfielder. And by using additional experience, intelligence, positioning and continued repetition of different game situations, he will improve even further in 2018 from this season.  What I recall seeing when I saw him make plays later in the season was someone who had learned a great deal in a short time about playing defense in left field and was certainly much better already than some outfielders out there in left for the Orioles over the last years.    I just disagree that Trey cannot continue to improve some defensively at least for another season and I  will go on to predict right now that he will be an improved outfielder in 2018 by whatever metrics one wishes to use.   In addition to being better offensively in every category in 2018.    Mark it down.  

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Bottom line, if he Judge gets injured - he gets injured, but I'm not buying any of the arguments posed in this thread that Judge's size is going to limit his durability.  When he slows down in his early to mid 30's, people are going to say I told ya - a big man like that is never gonna last.   

People are grasping at straws because they don’t want to admit that Judge is likely to be a force for the Yankees for the foreseeable future.    Sure it may turn out that 2017 was his career best season, but he’s going to be a big problem for years to come even if his performance slides somewhat.   

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

With subtle angles and jumps to the ball that make hard plays look easy and make impossible catches possible, I would think that more than a game or two in a particular opposing stadium, tiers, decks, lighting, sounds..etc.  will hopefully lead to a bit of improvement in 2018.     It is not just raw athleticism that determines being a good outfielder. And by using additional experience, intelligence, positioning and continued repetition of different game situations, he will improve even further in 2018 from this season.  What I recall seeing when I saw him make plays later in the season was someone who had learned a great deal in a short time about playing defense in left field and was certainly much better already than some outfielders out there in left for the Orioles over the last years.    I just disagree that Trey cannot continue to improve some defensively at least for another season and I  will go on to predict right now that he will be an improved outfielder in 2018 by whatever metrics one wishes to use.   In addition to being better offensively in every category in 2018.    Mark it down.  

I think his overall defensive performance will likely be better in 2018.     I’m not as sure about his offense.    His second half numbers were decent, but not as good as the first half, and the league may have figured him out a little bit.   

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

People are grasping at straws because they don’t want to admit that Judge is likely to be a force for the Yankees for the foreseeable future.    Sure it may turn out that 2017 was his career best season, but he’s going to be a big problem for years to come even if his performance slides somewhat.   

I didn't say he wasn't going to be good.

Particularly if the Oriole pitchers keep throwing the ball middle -middle against him.

How much of his 2017 success came at the expense of the Orioles?

[Number5]

2 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Since you brought up basketball - look at Lebron James - who's roughly the same size as Judge - playing a more physically demanding sport - has been playing in the NBA since he was a teenager, is about ready to turn 33, and still arguably the best player in the NBA.  

Everyone was skinnier - except for the aforementioned Frank Howard - in Winfield's day.  Strength and weight-training and caloric intake methods were nowhere near what they are today.  

Bottom line, if he Judge gets injured - he gets injured, but I'm not buying any of the arguments posed in this thread that Judge's size is going to limit his durability.  When he slows down in his early to mid 30's, people are going to say I told ya - a big man like that is never gonna last.    

 

 

I'm not sure what your point is.  I was responding to your comment that Judge and Winfield had comparable body types.  Nothing more.  Apparently you now agree that they don't.  As to whether big men have a more difficult type staying in shape and enduring, my life experience is that we do, but I really don't have sufficient knowledge to "weigh in" on the subject regarding professional athletes.  I can tell you my wheels gave out a decade ago. 

[Aglets]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't say he wasn't going to be good.

Particularly if the Oriole pitchers keep throwing the ball middle -middle against him.

How much of his 2017 success came at the expense of the Orioles?

He hit 11 of his 52 HR against the O's.     So 21% of his HR in 12% of his games.

His overall slash was .284/.422/.627 / 1.049 but against the O's it was:  .426 / .588 / 1.049  / 1.637.

Pretty frightening.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I'm not sure what your point is.  I was responding to your comment that Judge and Winfield had comparable body types.  Nothing more.  Apparently you now agree that they don't.  As to whether big men have a more difficult type staying in shape and enduring, my life experience is that we do, but I really don't have sufficient knowledge to "weigh in" on the subject regarding professional athletes.  I can tell you my wheels gave out a decade ago. 

Not a lot of data points when it comes to oversized outfielders in MLB.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Number5 said:

I'm not sure what your point is.  I was responding to your comment that Judge and Winfield had comparable body types.  Nothing more.  Apparently you now agree that they don't.  As to whether big men have a more difficult type staying in shape and enduring, my life experience is that we do, but I really don't have sufficient knowledge to "weigh in" on the subject regarding professional athletes.  I can tell you my wheels gave out a decade ago. 

Ok, I'm not sure how you don't understand what my point was if you've read the thread.  It was about Judge's career likely deteriorating quickly because of his size.  People were making the point that because he's big, he'll go down hill quickly.  I was pointing that idea didn't make much sense to me.    

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Ok, I'm not sure how you don't understand what my point was if you've read the thread.  It was about Judge's career likely deteriorating quickly because of his size.  People were making the point that because he's big, he'll go down hill quickly.  I was pointing that idea didn't make much sense to me.    

The underlying logic is simple, larger people put more stress on their bodies.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

People are grasping at straws because they don’t want to admit that Judge is likely to be a force for the Yankees for the foreseeable future.    Sure it may turn out that 2017 was his career best season, but he’s going to be a big problem for years to come even if his performance slides somewhat.   

I agree.  And you and I would both love to see Mancini have a better career than Judge, but that's probably not gonna happen.  

[Ruzious]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

The underlying logic is simple, larger people put more stress on their bodies.

But they've got more strength to use their bodies - and Judge has a freakish body that you shouldn't just lump in with lesser athletes.  And it's not like this is football or basketball - both of which require so much more running and contact.  

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

But they've got more strength to use their bodies - and Judge has a freakish body that you shouldn't just lump in with lesser athletes.  And it's not like this is football or basketball - both of which require so much more running and contact.  

I'm going to go with the same logic we use with elbow ligaments.  Those parts of the body are not designed to endure that type of stress.  The ligaments, joints and tendons can't be built up like the muscles can.

 

Once again the comp I wanted to use was Stanton, do you think Stanton is a lesser athlete?

[El Gordo]

2 hours ago, Ruzious said:

That list isn't complete without El Gordo's weight.  C'mon, what's it up to?

275 all muscle.