Stanton to the Yankees

[Satyr3206]

8 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Well I know, but it's not like we're doing anything to trade Machado and get back a good package to help set us up for the next 5-10 years.  Or do anything to sign him and say that this is the guy we want to build around.  All signs point to him walking at the end of next year and all we get back is a draft pick.  Honestly at this point I don't care what they decided to do with him, JUST DO SOMETHING.  Be decisive.  

No sign of us doing anything to get rid of Davis, Trumbo, we'll be stuck with those guys for the duration of their contracts like we had to endure with Ubaldo.

We are, in all likelihood, headed for a dark time.  It sucks to see the Yankees get Stanton, but it sucks even more to just throw up our hands and think there's nothing we can do.  We can fight back, we don't have to roll over for these guys.  We're not exactly in the poor house, we can spend some money but we can't spend it wastefully.  We need to have a defined plan, have to execute on it and have very little room for errors in scouting and development and trades.

I'm not pissed about not being all in on someone like Otani or getting someone like Stanton, those are things we just don't do.  I'm pissed that the things that we DO do, we're not good at.  

I agree with you. One of the most fundamental problems with the Orioles is that the GM and Ownership are never on the same page. Could DD oversee a rebuild? Probably. But that will never happen with this Owner. Just look at the players the Orioles have let walk for a draft pick. I would go as far to say that the FO has not worked properly since Hank Peters early years as GM.

[25 Nuggets]

5 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

The Yankees also take full advantage of the cost-controlled IFA market and have made smart sell-off trades when they are having down seasons.

Yes, they have more money, but the team has been run more intelligently than the Orioles as well, as much as I hate to say it.

Absolutely.  Brian Cashman is a very good GM.

And it ain't the Yankees fault for A-Rod or Stanton.  It is squarely the Rangers and Marlins fault.  They inked the deals they could not afford.

[ChuckS]

On 12/9/2017 at 12:20 AM, NCRaven said:

Argh....

What else is there to say.  At least they probably won’t spend on Manny when he hits free agency.

More pages than I feel like navigating, but if someone hasn't pointed this out I think this INCREASES the chances that they sign Manny. 

Stanton in RF, Hicks in CF, and Ellsbury (untradable) in LF with Gardner leaving via free agency. 

They won't be in on Harper but there will be a big vacancy at 3B or SS if they want to move Didi over. 

[SouthRider]

11 hours ago, Norfolk orioles said:

What a great sport. Just spend a ton of money and buy your way out of trouble.

A-rod, Tex, overpaying for Ellsbury, none of it matters because you can just ignore the salary limits than 2/3's of the other teams in the sport have and go get whoever you want.

I love the O's but it's getting harder and harder to justify spending so much time, money and effort watching a sport that isn't even remotely operating on a level playing field.

Very disappointing.

This is nothing new.  Back before the amateur draft the Yankees would just sign all the top prospects.  Things were more level in the mid 1960's when the draft was implemented.  Free agency in 1976 put things squarely in favor of the big clubs with money.  Steinbrenner kind of offset a lot of that with his constant meddling.  The Yankees didn't spend wisely in the early 1980's signing the likes of Dave Collins and others.  The 80's was probably the low point for NY.  Low enough they could draft Jeter with the 6th overall pick on 1992. Once Cashman came in and figured things out, a revamped farm system and deep pockets allowed the evil empire to return.    There will be short windows of opportunity like we just saw in 2012-2016, but the Yankees will always be  a threat as they have been since the 1950's.

The playing field is not level but team like the Nationals show it is possible to draft well, trade well, and spend the dollars needed to compete.  The Nats have basically the same resources the O's have yet somehow they can sign the likes of a Scherzer.  I hear they are talking about Arrietta this year. Yeah it helps to luck into Harper and Strasburg, but the O's lucked into Machado.  They haven't capitalized on it.  

It's going to get ugly when Machado walks. Probably another decade or more of sub-500 teams.  Poor drafting, no international presence, not willing to spend on prime free agents, over spend on guys like Davis because they are 'fan favorites'.  The O's are just poorly run.   Luckily they have Buck and Duquette.    

 

Anyway, I'm where you are.  I recognized this a few years ago and stopped watching.  Things got interesting again when teams like the O's and Royals once gain became competitive.  I love what the Astros and Indians have done but have no rooting interest in those teams.  I have no interest in watching another decade of Yankees/Red Sox/Cubs/Dodgers.  

[Il BuonO]

7 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Absolutely.  Brian Cashman is a very good GM.

And it ain't the Yankees fault for A-Rod or Stanton.  It is squarely the Rangers and Marlins fault.  They inked the deals they could not afford.

It also doesn’t hurt to have an owner who lets him do his job.

[tntoriole]

13 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

The Yankees also take full advantage of the cost-controlled IFA market and have made smart sell-off trades when they are having down seasons.

Yes, they have more money, but the team has been run more intelligently than the Orioles as well, as much as I hate to say it.

They may seem more intelligent because their mistakes in signing overpriced failures never affects anything else they do, they could have just jettisoned a Ubaldo for example and found another pitcher with no consequence about budget or cut loose a Chris Davis and let someone else take over that slot. 

It is a lot easier being smart when your mistakes don’t impact decision making in any way. 

[spiritof66]

7 hours ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Absolutely.  Brian Cashman is a very good GM.

And it ain't the Yankees fault for A-Rod or Stanton.  It is squarely the Rangers and Marlins fault.  They inked the deals they could not afford.

I don't think Cashman is so terrific. His job has some unusual challenges but he also has a few things going for him:

• He can take a risk when he wants to, especially the risk of entering into long-term free agent contracts, because the NYYs can buy their way out of it if things don't work out.
• He can play a waiting game when he wants to because there's no FA he has to sign and no trade he has to make since there will always be another opportunity coming up, even if it will be more expensive.
• There are players with no previous connection to the NYY franchise (ML free agents, international free agents, and players who can decline trades because of contract or 5-and-10 rights) who, for various reasons, want to play for the NYYs.
• He can use his MiL system -- which has plenty of depth because of the large amounts spent scouting and developing players, especially in Latin America -- to make trades if he thinks he needs to. No prospect is untouchable since, should the need arise, he can buy a replacement later. (A decade or two ago, it was frequently said that NYY prospects were over-hyped and overrated because there was much more media coverage of their MiL players; I don't think that's true now.)

I think what's happened is that Cashman, over the years and with decreased interference from ownership, has learned how to get more value of these advantages.

I don't know the details of how the Stanton deal came to be, or who in Miami made the decision to make this deal. (It's pretty clear that Sherman made the decision he had to be traded.) But the Dodgers' unwillingness to trade for Stanton made the NYYs, for practical purposes, his top choice -- maybe the only choice -- to be the partner in a trade the Marlins had to make. It appears that Cashman convinced the Marlins, and principally Jeter with input from his underlings, that the Marlins had to make this deal, and had to make it right now, or risk being stuck with Stanton (or getting even less for him). I suspect that the trade was driven by the dynamic that that the NYYs didn't need to make a trade -- they never do -- and Cashman preying on Jeter's inexperience, ignorance and fear of failure in his first big assignment -- kind of like picking on a nervous, inept rookie cornerback.

 

 

 

 

 

[pastorfan]

13 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

The Yankees also take full advantage of the cost-controlled IFA market and have made smart sell-off trades when they are having down seasons.

Yes, they have more money, but the team has been run more intelligently than the Orioles as well, as much as I hate to say it.

They have made some good moves and benefited from some luck. They got Chapman without giving up much--and remarkably got away without much public outcry given that Chapman was accused of domestic violence. (If the Orioles had traded for him, they might have been lambasted.) And now the Yanks get Stanton without giving up much prospect wise. BUT we will see if they shot themselves in the foot by not resigning Girardi (granted any of us could manage this club into the playoffs, but once in, let's see how they do with a rookie manager).

[Moose Milligan]

Still hasn't agreed to the trade.

[SteveA]

4 hours ago, ChuckS said:

More pages than I feel like navigating, but if someone hasn't pointed this out I think this INCREASES the chances that they sign Manny. 

Stanton in RF, Hicks in CF, and Ellsbury (untradable) in LF with Gardner leaving via free agency. 

They won't be in on Harper but there will be a big vacancy at 3B or SS if they want to move Didi over. 

Where are you playing Aaron Judge in your scenario?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

Where are you playing Aaron Judge in your scenario?

Sent down to A ball until he signs a team friendly extension.

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

Where are you playing Aaron Judge in your scenario?

Lol.  I knew I was forgetting someone.  Furthers my point.  The OF is already crowded.  

Stanton could be playing a good amount of DH, but definitely no room for another outfielder if this trade goes through. 

[oriolediehard]

On 12/9/2017 at 2:02 AM, phillyOs119 said:

I don't think so, but no need for the doom and gloom. I think Stanton is worth about what he is being paid and the Yankees are going to give up value to acquire him.  Sure it makes their line-up scary but I'm not sure it's a win for them long term.

Hey maybe it'll be enough to push the Orioles to sell short term assets, which is the smart move anyway.

The Yankees almost never have to give up much quality to get a mega star and don't bet on it that they won't spend on Manny.  I don't think it is fair the O's are stuck in the AL East. The O's Blue Jays/ Rays are overmatched with no chance. I definitely have and absolutely have the right to have sour grapes, no doubt.

[mdbdotcom]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Still hasn't agreed to the trade.

Press conference scheduled for tomorrow.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

The Yankees almost never have to give up much quality to get a mega star and don't bet on it that they won't spend on Manny.  I don't think it is fair the O's are stuck in the AL East. The O's Blue Jays/ Rays are overmatched with no chance. I definitely have and absolutely have the right to have sour grapes, no doubt.

The Jays are overmatched?

How so?

The O's could certainly compete with the Yankees and Red Sox with the resources they have available.  But they can't if they don't use those intelligently.

It is a bit of a minor miracle that the Dan and Buck were able to force a window open at all with the limitations put on them by ownership.