Who is available for LF???

[HoodGuy007]

While I expect to have a few retorts concerning trading within the division, if DCab/Olson/Reimold nets Alex Rios, we need to do it. And yes, I would trade all three to get him. Rios is becoming one of the premiere young outfielders in the game and would fit beautifully in LF for us for the next decade or so.

No to Olson. I respect your opinion Greg, but my minor league "untouchable list" is Liz, Olson, Erbe, Rowell, and (when he signs) Weiter. If Penn could stay healthy, he'd be on there too.

[Mackus]

While I expect to have a few retorts concerning trading within the division, if DCab/Olson/Reimold nets Alex Rios, we need to do it. And yes, I would trade all three to get him. Rios is becoming one of the premiere young outfielders in the game and would fit beautifully in LF for us for the next decade or so.

Cabrera, Olson, and Reimold is a pretty big package. I'd probably do Cabrera, Liz, and Reimold. Substituting Olson in (who is essentially MLB ready, he'll probably debut this week) makes it a really big offer. Rios is awesome, but I think that might be a bit too much to give up to get him.

[Greg Pappas]

He is really the guy that intrigues me the most, especially because they are willing to give him up, but I still think that is too much.

What was their asking price this summer? It has to be higher now right?

It's certainly debatable whether or not Cabrera/Olson and Reimold are too much, but not in my eyes. I try real hard to see things from the other side in any trade scenarios. Personally I don't expect the Jays to do this deal, as there are many other teams that would be in on Rios, and likely have as good an offer or better than what we'd offer.

It's beyond me why the Jays would want to deal Rios anyway, as they are going to have to sign great young talent like him if they ever want to truly compete in the AL East.

[Greg Pappas]

Cabrera, Olson, and Reimold is a pretty big package. I'd probably do Cabrera, Liz, and Reimold. Substituting Olson in (who is essentially MLB ready, he'll probably debut this week) makes it a really big offer. Rios is awesome, but I think that might be a bit too much to give up to get him.

Liz instead of Olson, hmmmmm. Thats certainly an intriguing switch, and I agree that the Jays might just consider that. Although, again, I doubt the Jays would want to deal Rios to us, unless we simply offered the best deal.

[Mackus]

If you really want to compare Mulder and Bedard, the stat to look at is away starts, not total starts. Mulder's home park had to be influencing his results drastically because that coliseum is death for hitters. I haven't done the comp so maybe I'm wrong, but I bet I'm not.

ERA+ takes park effects into...effect, I believe.

[HoodGuy007]

I would send Ray before I would send Liz. I really think we have the real deal in him. He has thrown two no hitters in two years. You don't find that in minor league pitchers too often.

[DrungoHazewood]

I would send Ray before I would send Liz. I really think we have the real deal in him. He has thrown two no hitters in two years. You don't find that in minor league pitchers too often.

Tom Drees once threw three no hitters in one AAA year, including two consecutively. His career MLB ERA? 12.27.

[Frobby]

If you really want to compare Mulder and Bedard, the stat to look at is away starts, not total starts. Mulder's home park had to be influencing his results drastically because that coliseum is death for hitters. I haven't done the comp so maybe I'm wrong, but I bet I'm not.

His ERA+, which is park-adjusted was

87

126

134

136

106

Before he was traded. He was a big winner and an innings eater. I'd say he was a more marketable commodity than Bedard at the time he was traded. However, Bedard has a lot of value at the trade deadline to a team in the running.

[HoodGuy007]

Tom Drees once threw three no hitters in one AAA year, including two consecutively. His career MLB ERA? 12.27.

I stand corrected!

[El Gordo]

Yeah, I think Rowand will get quite expensive. He's a solid player, but I don't think I'd want to give him a 4/$32M+ deal.

He'll be a lot cheaper than Hunter, Suzuki or Jones and probably as good for a longer period of time. Money is one thing we can afford to spend. We have no CF is our system. We need to get one to last a few years.

[NoVaO]

His ERA+, which is park-adjusted was

87

126

134

136

106

Before he was traded. He was a big winner and an innings eater. I'd say he was a more marketable commodity than Bedard at the time he was traded. However, Bedard has a lot of value at the trade deadline to a team in the running.

But he was in decline. I don't understand why people seem to ignore the trends of both pitchers in terms of the peripherals, not just ERA+. A guy who put up as many innings as Mulder had, and just came off a very average season would scare the hell out of me and no way would I give up what the Cardinals gave up to get him. I would of set my sites on somebody else.

[Sports Guy]

His ERA+, which is park-adjusted was

87

126

134

136

106

Before he was traded. He was a big winner and an innings eater. I'd say he was a more marketable commodity than Bedard at the time he was traded. However, Bedard has a lot of value at the trade deadline to a team in the running.

If Mulder was traded in July of 2004, i would agree with this for these reasons:

1) Dealt at the deadline..More competition, pitchers get more at the deadline.

2) Didn't have the health issues.

3) Had a first half ERA of 3.21.

However, look at his second half splits:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/splits?statsId=6393&type=pitching&year=2004

Plus, his health issues were worse in the second half of that year i believe.

So, poor performance + health issues + being traded in offseason as opposed to deadline = less value than Bedard.

In other words, i think Mulder himself would have gotten more in trade in July of 2004 then he ended up getting.

[Camden_yardbird]

He'll be a lot cheaper than Hunter, Suzuki or Jones and probably as good for a longer period of time. Money is one thing we can afford to spend. We have no CF is our system. We need to get one to last a few years.

I would agree that the money will dry up somewhere, even Cameron is expected to get a 3/30 range deal. That will probably make guys like Rowand good deals, much the same way that the money dried up on catchers (Molina) a few years ago. But I don't know that Rowand is going to continue to perform how he has.

I think the best course for CF is go after a big name, and if the money goes to high, to the point that it is a bad contract) then wait until the market bottoms out on a guy like Rowand or Cameron.

I also think if Patterson rebounds that he is still #6 or 7 on the CF chart of FA's. There are just so many. Supply and Demand...if the Orioles are smart they will get a good deal.

[TGO]

True, but the stats I had seen posted thus far in this thread weren't ERA+. To give me a warm fuzzy, I would probably look at ERA+ and road ERA. While ERA+ balances out park effects league wide, I would be shocked if park effects are actually the same for every pitcher. In other words, an extreme fly ball pitcher and an extreme ground ball pitcher would have the same park effects applied to their ERA+ numbers if they both pitched in Wrigley or Boston, but I'll bet the fly ball pitcher would be much more effected in reality.

If you go here you can look at Mulder's splits in all of his seasons except 2000. You'll see he had a pretty big split in 2001 and 03, a very small split in 02, and a reverse split in 04. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6393/splits;_ylt=AoPVNBcdX.O.5JStGidpfmWFCLcF?year=2001&type=Pitching

[Rex Thunder]

I'd include Cabrera for either Rios or Crawford.

Im not high on trading within the division- but if a deal was centered around Daniel Cabrera for Carl Crawford- I'd jump on that in a heartbeat!!