Give Sisco another Chance

[atomic]

1 hour ago, TINSTAAPP said:

They've also been historically bad at preventing runs with "good" defensive catchers Pedro Severino and Jesus Sucre. Does catching defense really matter that much at this point? How many more runs are they going to give up due to Sisco's "bad" pitch selection and defense compared to Severino or Sucre or Wynns or some other catcher? 

That was my thoughts exactly.  The pitching has been horrendous with Severino catching.  We are historically awful team.  Sisco should be starting 75 percent of the games.  There is zero reason for fans to watch this team.  If you can't even give us one prospect player to see if they can develop I am not sure what the point of them playing games is at this point. 

[atomic]

3 hours ago, Going Underground said:

I have spoken to a few people in baseball who think the whole pitch calling thing is overrated. You have a good pitching staff and the catchers call good games. Do you think the Nationals catchers call a good game only when the starters are in the game?  Many teams switch their catchers many times and still they have good or bad ERA's. The Dodgers changed their catchers this year and have the best ERA in the majors. Tampa is second and they change the people catching almost every year.

The pitcher is responsible for what pitches get thrown not the catcher.   He just holds up signs until the pitcher sees one he likes.  

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, atomic said:

The pitcher is responsible for what pitches get thrown not the catcher.   He just holds up signs until the pitcher sees one he likes.  

That's not how this works. Each catcher is different and the relationship with his pitcher is different. Good catchers will call their own game with the pitcher rarely shaking him off. Most pitchers prefer to have the catcher call the game, leaving them to just execute the pitch. Sure, the pitcher has the  ultimately responsibility to make the final call since he can physically throw whatever he wants, but if the pitcher trusts the catcher, you won't see a ton of shakeoffs.

As one pitcher told me in spring this year, when Joseph or Castillo was behind the plate, he threw what they put down. When it was "others" it was more of a "collaborative" decision. In other words, he didn't trust Sisco or Wynns.

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, atomic said:

That was my thoughts exactly.  The pitching has been horrendous with Severino catching.  We are historically awful team.  Sisco should be starting 75 percent of the games.  There is zero reason for fans to watch this team.  If you can't even give us one prospect player to see if they can develop I am not sure what the point of them playing games is at this point. 

What makes you think the Orioles believe that Sisco is a better overall "prospect" than Severino at this point? Severino is a much better defensive catcher and has been one of the team's best hitters. All of the statcast information leans in Severino's direction as well.

[Frobby]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

What makes you think the Orioles believe that Sisco is a better overall "prospect" than Severino at this point? Severino is a much better defensive catcher and has been one of the team's best hitters. All of the statcast information leans in Severino's direction as well.

I don’t think Severino can be benched while he’s playing so well.    He’s earned his playing time, for now.    And he’s only about 19 months older than Sisco.    Could be a pretty decent trade piece after this season if he keeps hitting.    

[atomic]

34 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

What makes you think the Orioles believe that Sisco is a better overall "prospect" than Severino at this point? Severino is a much better defensive catcher and has been one of the team's best hitters. All of the statcast information leans in Severino's direction as well.

Sisco is younger and has a .829 OPS in the  minors compared to Severino's .642 OPS. At age 24 in AAA Sisco .914 OPS compared to Severino's .756 OPS.  

I don't say bench him he still gets 25 percent of the starts. 

[atomic]

Also the defensive metrics have Severino and Sisco pretty much even. 

[atomic]

42 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's not how this works. Each catcher is different and the relationship with his pitcher is different. Good catchers will call their own game with the pitcher rarely shaking him off. Most pitchers prefer to have the catcher call the game, leaving them to just execute the pitch. Sure, the pitcher has the  ultimately responsibility to make the final call since he can physically throw whatever he wants, but if the pitcher trusts the catcher, you won't see a ton of shakeoffs.

As one pitcher told me in spring this year, when Joseph or Castillo was behind the plate, he threw what they put down. When it was "others" it was more of a "collaborative" decision. In other words, he didn't trust Sisco or Wynns.

But did the pitcher pitch better when Joseph or Castillo was behind the plate?  I see good pitchers on other teams shaking off the catcher all the time.  

[Legend_Of_Joey]

24 minutes ago, atomic said:

Sisco is younger and has a .829 OPS in the  minors compared to Severino's .642 OPS. At age 24 in AAA Sisco .914 OPS compared to Severino's .756 OPS.  

I don't say bench him he still gets 25 percent of the starts. 

What does what he did in the minors have to do with how they are currently producing in the majors?

[Frobby]

Just now, Legend_Of_Joey said:

What does what he did in the minors have to do with how they are currently producing in the majors?

Well, it’s certainly reason to be skeptical that his current numbers are sustainable.    However, he’s been very good month by month this year (.912/.759/.868 OPS), and I can’t see cutting his playing time unless that changes.   

[El_Duderino]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

That's not how this works. Each catcher is different and the relationship with his pitcher is different. Good catchers will call their own game with the pitcher rarely shaking him off. Most pitchers prefer to have the catcher call the game, leaving them to just execute the pitch. Sure, the pitcher has the  ultimately responsibility to make the final call since he can physically throw whatever he wants, but if the pitcher trusts the catcher, you won't see a ton of shakeoffs.

As one pitcher told me in spring this year, when Joseph or Castillo was behind the plate, he threw what they put down. When it was "others" it was more of a "collaborative" decision. In other words, he didn't trust Sisco or Wynns.

Dollars to donuts that whoever said that wasn’t good last year with anyone behind the plate.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Well, it’s certainly reason to be skeptical that his current numbers are sustainable.    However, he’s been very good month by month this year (.912/.759/.868 OPS), and I can’t see cutting his playing time unless that changes.   

I fully get being skeptical. But the poster was pretty much saying "Sisco had better minor league numbers, so he needs to start instead." Which is just stupid to me, unless/until Severino gets traded or falls totally flat.

1 hour ago, El_Duderino said:

Dollars to donuts that whoever said that wasn’t good last year with anyone behind the plate.

I'll take "anyone that pitched" for $100. Though Cobb did seem to get better with each start with Wynns (including the complete game in Cleveland.) 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

But did the pitcher pitch better when Joseph or Castillo was behind the plate?  I see good pitchers on other teams shaking off the catcher all the time.  

Believe what you want, I'm not going to argue over your insane suggestion that catcher's just put fingers down until the pitcher finds the one he wants.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

Also the defensive metrics have Severino and Sisco pretty much even. 

dWAR for catchers has to be the worse metric ever created. There is not a baseball professional in all of professional baseball that would consider Sisco and Severino even defensively. And yes, I know you probably think you are smarter than all of them so spare me that reply.

[Tony-OH]

At the end of the day, the talent of the pitcher has a lot more to do with his success than the catcher behind the plate calling pitches, but a good game caller who is on the same wave length as a good pitcher can be helpful to said pitcher because he can relax more and let the catcher think while he executes.