Chris Davis 2019 and beyond

[tntoriole]

5 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

The players union would fight it, but the best thing would be for the Orioles to restructure the remaking portion of CD’s contract into an annuity to be paid out the next twenty years.

As bad as Ryan Howard was, he never hit like this and his WAR would have been better if he had the option to DH.

 

Since they will already be paying him millions every year through 2037 given the deferred money in his deal.   

[tntoriole]

in answer to the OP.....it would take firing Buck Showalter...

.and maybe firing Dan...

and Brady too...

and Potter reaching the end of the road...

and the kids selling the team.   

Other than that, it would be a piece of cake. 

[oriolediehard]

6 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

The players union would fight it, but the best thing would be for the Orioles to restructure the remaking portion of CD’s contract into an annuity to be paid out the next twenty years.

As bad as Ryan Howard was, he never hit like this and his WAR would have been better if he had the option to DH.

 

 

6 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

How miserable would you be if you knew that no matter what, someone owed you more than 131 million dollars? Ive always been pro player and still am, but the guaranteed contract has hurt the game badly. I wish there were a clause whereby if a player was so awful (with numbers and percentages that would be agreed upon in advance..a kind of reverse incentive clause)that the team had a chance to re-negociate a buyout at a fairer price. Of course the union wouldn't allow it...but this contract(which I supported) has helped destroy this organization for the foreseeable future. They can't afford players who could help them and first base is blocked and it won't be unblocked for years.A complete and total disaster and there are things I know and cant talk about that are going on in the clubhouse that would make the fans very angry...

I think the contract should be based solely on incentives.  The fans deserve a competitive team not a player get rewarded and rich with no obligation.

[Ohfan67]

7 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Again, Buck can't do anything with this roster.  Earl Weaver, Tommy Lasorda, Miller Huggins, Casey Stengel...pick any manager, ever.  None of them could do anything with this roster.

I get it if you're mad because Buck had a hand in selecting this roster but he's not responsible for all of it.  No one will truly know how much of it he's responsible for.  People on here will act like they know, but they don't.  

But if you're going to want to blast Buck for day to day stuff as far as lineup decisions, in game moves, he's working with a deck stacked against him.  If that's the hill you want to die on, that's all for you.  

I've got news though.  Buck won't be back next year.  Davis has a better chance of being back here, actually.  So you're going to have a manager with a worse roster (no Manny, no Jones) and a bunch of youngsters trying to figure it out.

And who's the whipping boy going to be then?   No Buck to manage, same crappy players.  Same terrible results.

I bet next year's team is better, regardless of who the manager is. 

[Ohfan67]

2 hours ago, oriolediehard said:

You hope he gets injured like Albert Belle and Peter Angelis can collect insurance on him?  I know it is a cruel thing to say but the union forces the owner to honor the contract where CD is not obligated to do anything.

It's not the union. It's the law. The Orioles signed a legally binding contract with Davis. The union gets involved with grievances because of the union's contract with MLB, but there's no out clause for poor performance in the contract. 

 

The situation sucks for the Orioles, but no one put a gun to Peter Angelos' head and forced this contract on the Orioles. Teams get a lot of cheap WAR out of young talent, then they have to gamble with free agents as players age. The Orioles went all in and lost big. This is not the union's fault or the system's fault. The Orioles bid against themselves and gave Davis this contract. 

[Ohfan67]

8 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

 

I think the contract should be based solely on incentives.  The fans deserve a competitive team not owners who get rewarded and rich with no obligation.

This is more accurate. 

 

In 2013 the Orioles got 6.5 WAR from Chris Davis for 3.3 million. The teams get super high value out of young talent. Teams then get a chance to avoid paying for the inevitable declines, but the Orioles decided to make Chris Davis the highest paid Oriole ever instead of negotiating a better deal or moving on. 

[Natty]

We should send Davis to the minors. Maybe it will help him hit.

[atomic]

6 hours ago, elgordo said:

Who were those 5? How many of them would you want to PH for anyone? One is the back up C who you may need, two are Rickard and Gentry whom you want to save for late inning defense, that leaves who? Pedro and Valencia/Pace? Shame to burn them with 2 outs and no one on base.

I think I already told you this in another thread you do a double switch. Have Gentry or Rickard pinch hit for Cobb and stay in the game and move to left.  And then have the new pitcher replace Davis.  Move pitcher to pitch.  Move Mancini to first. Pretty simple stuff.  Davis didn't even bat again so you wouldn't even need another pinch hitter. It is amazing that you are defending Buck at this point.

This is Buck's quote from last night's game: ( he is so stuck on the save  rule  I wish major league would make some modification to the save rule. So we would see Buck change how he manages).  

 

Manager Buck Showalter on both Brach and Castro warming before the ninth: “Yeah, if we had scored one more run, Miguel would have (come in) in a non-save. But Brad’s been throwing real well. Tonight wasn’t one of those nights.”

[atomic]

8 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

How miserable would you be if you knew that no matter what, someone owed you more than 131 million dollars? Ive always been pro player and still am, but the guaranteed contract has hurt the game badly. I wish there were a clause whereby if a player was so awful (with numbers and percentages that would be agreed upon in advance..a kind of reverse incentive clause)that the team had a chance to re-negociate a buyout at a fairer price. Of course the union wouldn't allow it...but this contract(which I supported) has helped destroy this organization for the foreseeable future. They can't afford players who could help them and first base is blocked and it won't be unblocked for years.A complete and total disaster and there are things I know and cant talk about that are going on in the clubhouse that would make the fans very angry...

No one forced the Orioles to give Davis a 7 year contract.  They choose to do that.  You have to pick whom you choose to give long contracts like that.  

[atomic]

9 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

That might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here.   Do you measure the difficulty of everything in life against hitting a baseball?  That's not even an apples and oranges comparison, that's like an apples and spatulas comparison.  

 Davis is 32 years old and is by most accounts, healthy and should be able to hit better than he is.  Buck is 62 years old and hasn't picked up a bat in decades.  And you're trying to say Buck's season is worse because of....what again?  

You were right about one thing.  Buck has to fill out a lineup card.  You, or anyone else here couldn't get significantly better results with the players he has to pick from.  

Buck is terrible.  He is a laughing stock of managers at this point.  He is so stuck on the save rule.  He just can't get out of that mindset. If he had to do the one game playoff over again he would put Jiminez right back in there. He doesn't even know how to pinch hit for pitchers. The players decide what position they want to play.  They decide to steal in game situations where it won't help.  They decide not to run out fly balls and ground outs

I can guarantee you if I were manager players who didn't run out the play wouldn't be playing. And Machado would be playing 3rd if he decided he could out every ball other wise he would sit. And Jones would be in right.  And Davis would be riding the bench.  And players wouldn't be stealing in nonsensical steal situations and if borderline major leaguers did that they would be no longer major leaguers.  Also I wouldn't be a slave to the save rule.   Buck would rather warm up a guy 4 times and not put him in because it was never a save situation than just pitch him the first time he warms up. 

[Morgan423]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dszymborski/status/1004602430816911362?s=21

 

Yipes.

[Ohfan67]

There's a chance that the O's are hoping Brach builds more trade value by showing he can save games, so there is a rational justification for giving him the save opportunity last night (you can disagree with it, but it is justifiable*). Unfortunately he's not lights-out this season.  Interestingly, Brach's FIP is almost a run lower than his ERA, suggesting that he's been a little unlucky (but of course small sample size, yada yada). 

 

*I would have probably went with Castro btw. Brach makes me nervous. 

[atomic]

Down to  -1.9 WAR.   I think he should just go on the DL for the rest of the season.  Take a few months off to spend with his family and then come back fresh for 2019.  

[birdman333]

Everyone knows how putrid Chris Davis has been but its still shocking to read this perspective on the historical context of the depths Davis has fallen to...

  http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23729870/real-not-chris-davis-worst-season-all

[Ohfan67]

By the way, I don't buy the argument that Davis' contract is going to kill the Orioles financially. They are paying Davis 17 million this year (the rest of the money is deferred without interest). That's a hit, but more like a stiff jab than a hard right hook. The Orioles are actually paying Adam Jones a little more money this year than they are paying Davis (same salary but 333k of prorated signing bonus). Manny and Jones' departures are going to free up 33 million. They will have money to find a SS or 3B and Jones' replacement is probably in the minors.