Things to try for the starting rotation

[Moose Milligan]

Well, I guess that takes care of Ramirez...

[DrungoHazewood]

55 minutes ago, atomic said:

How can you guarantee that?  You have no idea what he was doing.  We just know what he hasn't' been doing. 

We have a lot of circumstantial evidence and you can use common sense.  The guy came highly regarded from a franchise that tore it down to the studs, lost 100 games for a number of years, and rebuilt a Championship team.  He comes here and starts by tearing it down to the studs.  It's pretty straightforward to assume the next steps will be to collect pieces with long-term value and build up the development infrastructure.  Just like his experiences in Houston.  

You're the one going off on a wild excursion hypothesizing that instead of following an Astros-like plan instead he's been brought in to sabotage the franchise.  The Occam's Razor answer is they're emulating the Astros.  Your answer: it's a sinister plot.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

We have a lot of circumstantial evidence and you can use common sense.  The guy came highly regarded from a franchise that tore it down to the studs, lost 100 games for a number of years, and rebuilt a Championship team.  He comes here and starts by tearing it down to the studs.  It's pretty straightforward to assume the next steps will be to collect pieces with long-term value and build up the development infrastructure.  Just like his experiences in Houston.  

You're the one going off on a wild excursion hypothesizing that instead of following an Astros-like plan instead he's been brought in to sabotage the franchise.  The Occam's Razor answer is they're emulating the Astros.  Your answer: it's a sinister plot.

No he didn't.

Davis, Trumbo, Cashner, Cobb, Givens all still here.

Did he trade any vets away?

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

We have a lot of circumstantial evidence and you can use common sense.  The guy came highly regarded from a franchise that tore it down to the studs, lost 100 games for a number of years, and rebuilt a Championship team.  He comes here and starts by tearing it down to the studs.  It's pretty straightforward to assume the next steps will be to collect pieces with long-term value and build up the development infrastructure.  Just like his experiences in Houston.  

You're the one going off on a wild excursion hypothesizing that instead of following an Astros-like plan instead he's been brought in to sabotage the franchise.  The Occam's Razor answer is they're emulating the Astros.  Your answer: it's a sinister plot.

Can't reason with him, El Drungo.  He's been told a bunch of times before, he's just not interested in learning or keeping an open mind.  

And that says a LOT coming from me.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No he didn't.

Davis, Trumbo, Cashner, Cobb, Givens all still here.

Did he trade any vets away?

Mike Wright.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox sign free agents or trade for players that flame out all the time. But like you said, they have a printing press that allows them to spend good money after bad. Plus they have a decent amount of home grown prospects that are contributors on the 25 man roster.

Orioles miss on Cobb and Davis, and it sets them back years. When the Red Sox can just go and find the next player.

The Sandoval contract would have been the 2nd-largest in Orioles history.  When the Sox got no production and cut bait on it that was about as siginificant to them as DFA'ing a $500k 5th outfielder is to the O's.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Mike Wright.

Even if you want to count Mike Wright I don't think he qualifies as a "coming in" move.  I think those would have had to have been done before the season started.

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No he didn't.

Davis, Trumbo, Cashner, Cobb, Givens all still here.

Did he trade any vets away?

Combined value of Davis, Trumbo, Cashner, Cobb, Givens... negative how many $million?  It would take some 27th-level GM wizardy to get more than a couple beer coasters for any of them but Givens.  All the guys with value were gone long before he became GM.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

Combined value of Davis, Trumbo, Cashner, Cobb, Givens... negative how many $million?  It would take some 27th-level GM wizardy to get more than a couple beer coasters for any of them but Givens.  All the guys with value were gone long before he became GM.

I'm saying your terminology isn't accurate.  Dan tore the team down.  Elias hasn't traded or released anyone of note.  Elias could have theoretically cut Trumbo and Davis.

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

How can you guarantee that?  You have no idea what he was doing.  We just know what he hasn't' been doing. 

This is true. We can't guarantee anything. The Angelos brothers could absolutely be preparing this team for sale. Elias might be operating within confines unknown to us. It is possible. We cannot guarantee anything, even in the face of what has been said in many interviews since before Elias was hired until a couple of weeks ago with Tony. We won't know anything until it actually happens. 

However, what has been done so far is 100% consistent with what he's said and what happened in Houston. 

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No he didn't.

Davis, Trumbo, Cashner, Cobb, Givens all still here.

Did he trade any vets away?

It's May 22 of his first season here. You named 3 guys who are absolutely untradeable right now, a fourth who is just building value now and a fifth who's an ok reliever that we over rate here. 

But, like atomic says, we cannot guarantee Elias' intentions until we see him jettison the roster of the bad contracts and sign international players. Until then, and maybe even after, there's always the chance that the Angelos brothers are in strip it down to the studs to sell mode. We wouldn't even necessarily know until it's done. There's a chance for sure.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Even if you want to count Mike Wright I don't think he qualifies as a "coming in" move.  I think those would have had to have been done before the season started.

I was being sarcastic. The veteran assets aren't really valuable unless you package them another prospect or international bonus pool allotments. And for contracts like Davis even that isn't enough to entice a team.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LookinUp said:

This is true. We can't guarantee anything. The Angelos brothers could absolutely be preparing this team for sale. Elias might be operating within confines unknown to us. It is possible. We cannot guarantee anything, even in the face of what has been said in many interviews since before Elias was hired until a couple of weeks ago with Tony. We won't know anything until it actually happens. 

However, what has been done so far is 100% consistent with what he's said and what happened in Houston. 

It's May 22 of his first season here. You named 3 guys who are absolutely untradeable right now, a fourth who is just building value now and a fifth who's an ok reliever that we over rate here. 

But, like atomic says, we cannot guarantee Elias' intentions until we see him jettison the roster of the bad contracts and sign international players. Until then, and maybe even after, there's always the chance that the Angelos brothers are in strip it down to the studs to sell mode. We wouldn't even necessarily know until it's done. There's a chance for sure.

I'm not saying it would have been easy, heck I'm not saying it was possible.

What I am saying is that Drungo's statement isn't accurate.  Elias did not come in and tear the team down to the studs.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'm saying your terminology isn't accurate.  Dan tore the team down.  Elias hasn't traded or released anyone of note.  Elias could have theoretically cut Trumbo and Davis.

Torturing my metaphor a bit more, the veterans we still have around are like a herd of feral wildebeests wandering around your property.  A little annoying, but not really hurting anything if you let them stay while you're waiting for the contractor to come in and pour the new foundation.  They'll be gone long before the house is rebuilt and you move in.

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

What I am saying is that Drungo's statement isn't accurate.  Elias did not come in and tear the team down to the studs.

Apologies for my inaccurate statement.  He came into to a franchise with little left to tear down, but a long way to go to rebuild.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

Torturing my metaphor a bit more, the veterans we still have around are like a herd of feral wildebeests wandering around your property.  A little annoying, but not really hurting anything if you let them stay while you're waiting for the contractor to come in and pour the new foundation.  They'll be gone long before the house is rebuilt and you move in.

I don't want a piece of this.  That's a 5/4 trampler that lets your opponent recast his Wall of Blossoms.