Chirs Davis per Mike Elias

[Catch 8]

8 hours ago, 24fps said:

Your approach would quickly and permanently change the headline from Chris Davis: Shadow of His Former Self to Baltimore Orioles: Oppressive A**hole Weasel Franchise and accelerate Davis’ transition to full-on underdog status.  This has already begun. The story is no longer “crippling contract” and “historically bad”is getting stale too.

This is one of those rare moments where the choice actually is black or white. If the O’s don’t release him - which would be my recommendation - then they have no choice but to fully and publicly support his rehabilitation.  It looks like Mike Elias gets this.  

CD is getting his money: the players, Tony Clark and his super union, etc. would be fine with any outcome whereby Davis collects his money.  I doubt Elias is shooting straight right now--and that may be the right call for now *shrug*.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

You could argue Davis didn’t work out either due to a medical reason. He stopped using Adderall.

He stopped using Adderall before he signed the contract.

[Catch 8]

12 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

You could argue Davis didn’t work out either due to a medical reason. He stopped using Adderall.

That argument is valid.  We certainly did not expect CD to fall off a cliff after signing his name.

Though there were warning signs since CD had a pitiful year separating two sensational years. 

The item here is Machado--we needed to be aggressive with him.  And if we were not resigning Machado, IMO that should have been a rebuild--however, I understand my opinion here is not a slam dunk by any means.  Just my perspective.

At the time, I would have been happy had we got CD and Manny.  And CD would have failed and I would have been wrong.  But I can be wrong b/c I wasn't privy to things that decisions-makers should be.  CD had easy easy power.  I also wouldn't have been upset had we not signed him and took the picks.  Again though, if we knew no Manny, don't sign CD.  My $0.02

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Catch 8 said:

That argument is valid.  We certainly did not expect CD to fall off a cliff after signing his name.

Though there were warning signs since CD had a pitiful year separating two sensational years. 

The item here is Machado--we needed to be aggressive with him.  And if we were not resigning Machado, IMO that should have been a rebuild--however, I understand my opinion here is not a slam dunk by any means.  Just my perspective.

At the time, I would have been happy had we got CD and Manny.  And CD would have failed and I would have been wrong.  But I can be wrong b/c I wasn't privy to things that decisions-makers should be.  CD had easy easy power.  I also wouldn't have been upset had we not signed him and took the picks.  Again though, if we knew no Manny, don't sign CD.  My $0.02

How is it valid?  He'd already been off of Adderall when they signed him.  It isn't as if they signed him and then MLB took his TUE away or altered it.

[OriolesMagic83]

20 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I just realized Davis only has 23 RBIs for the season. I shouldn’t be surprised given his performance, but it still caught me off guard. 

Now Davis not only has a rock bottom average, OBP, SLG, etc, etc., he's a punchless singles hitter.  I thought he would continue to hit for power even if he was hitting .150.  I guess I was wrong.

[24fps]

7 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

There is no rehab for lost bat speed. Whatever Davis was going to do for the Orioles he’s done it. 

He knows he’s stealing the money and the Orioles aren’t even getting a dime on the dollar. 

If it weren’t for the contract he’d be in the minors, playing in Mexico or Japan, or out of baseball altogether. 

The Orioles are stuck with Davis until they can either reach a point where they can stomach the swallowing whatever portion of the contract that is left when they do it or make him a bench coach until he decides to get out. Even on the roster the team is under no obligation to pay him.

Sitting him would be a business decision made by the team for a player except in very short spurts isn’t helping the team. The Os can use the at bats to evaluate guys at AAA that aren’t currently viewed as the long term pieces. DJ Stewart comes to mind when he’s ready to return

Finally. The Orioles wouldn’t be buttholes for making a business decision on a player. 

Davis is stealing nothing.  The only criminal act that took place was criminal stupidity on Peter Angelos' part in demanding Davis be resigned, then signing off himself on that ridiculous contract.

If Chris Davis decides that collecting every penny of his guaranteed contract is a prudent "business decision" (it is) then that is exactly what will happen.  If the Orioles are lucky, Davis will agree to restructuring the current terms but I don't expect the amount to change.  The Orioles can cut him, they can play him or not, but they can't shortchange him.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Davis is stealing nothing.  The only criminal act that took place was criminal stupidity on Peter Angelos' part in demanding Davis be resigned, then signing off himself on that ridiculous contract.

If Chris Davis decides that collecting every penny of his guaranteed contract is a prudent "business decision" (it is) then that is exactly what will happen.  If the Orioles are lucky, Davis will agree to restructuring the current terms but I don't expect the amount to change.  The Orioles can cut him, they can play him or not, but they can't shortchange him.

 

If they don't play him how will he meet his performance incentives?

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

How is it valid?  He'd already been off of Adderall when they signed him.  It isn't as if they signed him and then MLB took his TUE away or altered it.

Do you have any source or validation for when he was on or off? I believe he was suspended for taking it without the exemption.

we also know he was using an alternative that Adderall which imo want as effective.

My point is we don’t know when he was or wasn’t using. Perhaps we can dig up when he was or wasn’t supposed to be.

Personally, Even if Davis said he wasnt using before he signed the deal I’m not sure I’d believe him

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

Do you have any source or validation for when he was on or off? I believe he was suspended for taking it without the exemption.

we also know he was using an alternative that Adderall which imo want as effective.

My point is we don’t know when he was or wasn’t using. Perhaps we can dig up when he was or wasn’t supposed to be.

Personally, Even if Davis said he wasnt using before he signed the deal I’m not sure I’d believe him

He was busted for it in 2014.  All I have heard since then is in 2015 he was on the alternative.  I have no idea if he is still taking it but the O's knew he wasn't going to be able to take Adderall.  He's in the PED program so he has an additional level of testing so I'd say it's pretty fair bet that he hasn't taken any since his last positive test.

[24fps]

2 hours ago, Catch 8 said:

CD is getting his money: the players, Tony Clark and his super union, etc. would be fine with any outcome whereby Davis collects his money.  I doubt Elias is shooting straight right now--and that may be the right call for now *shrug*.

CD will get his money and the MLBPA will not only be happy with some resolution to what is currently only media noise, they will be overjoyed.  I think the union would be happiest of all if Chris Davis dried up and blew away.  Chris Davis is the poster boy for stupid, bloated, unwarranted long-term player contracts and collective bargaining for the new CBA will get underway soon with unfair compensation being a key complaint on the union's agenda.

Hmmm...

OTOH I think Elias is walking his own tightrope right now with the uncertainty over the future Orioles ownership transition.  It's not the right time to go to war with either the union or give MLB any ammunition to further prosecute it's alleged feud with the O's.  Kicking the problem down the road a little while longer might be the most reasonable strategy of all.

[Roll Tide]

21 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Davis is stealing nothing.  The only criminal act that took place was criminal stupidity on Peter Angelos' part in demanding Davis be resigned, then signing off himself on that ridiculous contract.

If Chris Davis decides that collecting every penny of his guaranteed contract is a prudent "business decision" (it is) then that is exactly what will happen.  If the Orioles are lucky, Davis will agree to restructuring the current terms but I don't expect the amount to change.  The Orioles can cut him, they can play him or not, but they can't shortchange him.

 

I don’t disagree... but sending him to the bench doesn’t make them a derogatory organization. It’s a business decision based on performance, the only leverage they have, and Davis’ will.

He gets all the money because the MLB monopoly thing sucks. Stupid contract by the Orioles worst owner ever... I agree

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

He was busted for it in 2014.  All I have heard since then is in 2015 he was on the alternative.  I have no idea if he is still taking it but the O's knew he wasn't going to be able to take Adderall.  He's in the PED program so he has an additional level of testing so I'd say it's pretty fair bet that he hasn't taken any since his last positive test.

Right.   He was granted an exemption for Vyvanse for 2015 and had the great season that led to his contract.    We’ve never heard anything to suggest he no longer has that exemption.   

[atomic]

6 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Now Davis not only has a rock bottom average, OBP, SLG, etc, etc., he's a punchless singles hitter.  I thought he would continue to hit for power even if he was hitting .150.  I guess I was wrong.

You do know we have two guys with OPS in the .400s. Davis OPS is 100 points higher than them. Really the obsession with Davis at this point has become obsurd.  Where all the threads calling for the release of Broxton and Martin. 

[Hallas]

Part of me thinks that if the team is terrible and there isn't a prospect he's blocking, you can throw him out there and hope he finds his missing bat speed.  What difference does it make if some random AAAA scrub hits for replacement level and gets us to 53 wins instead of 51?

1 hour ago, atomic said:

You do know we have two guys with OPS in the .400s. Davis OPS is 100 points higher than them. Really the obsession with Davis at this point has become obsurd.  Where all the threads calling for the release of Broxton and Martin. 

Broxton provides defensive value.  Martin should be sent down.  But the O's aren't paying Martin ~20m a year.

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, atomic said:

You do know we have two guys with OPS in the .400s. Davis OPS is 100 points higher than them. Really the obsession with Davis at this point has become obsurd.  Where all the threads calling for the release of Broxton and Martin. 

Martin as a SS has some defensive value, and we’re holding onto him to stash him in the minors next year.    Broxton also has some defensive value in CF but they can dump them any time.

Put it this way, if someone came to me and said, “you can dump Davis, but only if you also dump Martin and Broxton,” I’d get rid of all three gladly.