I really want to keep Villar (Update: Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas)

[weams]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've not heard a negative word about him as a person.

I heard rumours about how he did so well that senior year. He denied it in an interview I read. But so many lies these days. Used to be a sin. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Well its obvious that the ball was manipulated before this past season and he did produce 4 WAR. so by that argument I'd say I'm right. But he also produced 3.9 WAR a few years ago when the ball wasn't juiced.

The juiced ball doesn’t inflate WAR.   WAR is a relative stat, i.e., it’s adjusted for the offensive environment of the time.    That’s how Frank Robinson was worth 3.7 WAR as a RF in a year when he batted .268 with 15 HR and 52 RBI (1968).

I don’t think you can ignore his bad 2017 season when predicting his future, any more than you can ignore his best year.   If you asked me to bet, I’d bet on 7-8 WAR over the next three years.     If things go his way, it could be more.    If he gets banged up, it could be less.    

[jerios55]

11 minutes ago, weams said:

Lets not have ANY rep wars. These are opinions and some misguided facts. Folks are upset. I get it. The boss is upset. He's not throwing around neg rep.

I had to go back 8 pages to find info related to Villar and what is specifically happening.  

It'd be nice to not have a few people crush a thread with posts that are nothing but being upset.  

I do get it.  I expected villar to get. something.  But this is far less crushing than the Davis contract.

Unfortunately, this is what the team is now.  Elias said as much when he got here.  

for those saying Synder/skins at least spend money dont really see the dumpster fire that team is.  They spent money, thought they were close and appear on many fronts to have no plan.  

There is a plan.  One that many dont like.  And it may not work.  But we've had lots of years that was true.  They aren't changing it just because people are upset. 

 

[Roll Tide]

13 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

If you think this is the worst move made by the Orioles during your fandom, then you have not been watching the Orioles and deserve all the snark given. Your response is completely over the top and borderline ridiculous. Villar is a flawed player and was often very frustrating to watch. His inexplicable defensive and base running miscues were frequent and frustrating. 

You have a right to your opinion.... I assume the 67 in your handle indicates something about your age.

I've been a fan since the late 70s!

Its OH Lore that I hate pretty much everything related to Peter Angelos' ownership of the Orioles.

You have a right to your opinion ...But the national media including MLBTR , and even Tony here is torching them for this move. I have enjoyed watching Villar, he was one of their best players in 2019, he plays with hustle, and yes he makes some mistakes. But cutting a guy coming off a 4 WAR season is absurd. Show me a comparable example of this sort of behavior from any good team....Im betting you cant!

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've not heard a negative word about him as a person.

He just wasnt a good baseball player , a wasted pick, and wasted revenue.

[gtown]

2 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

 

There is a plan.  One that many dont like.  And it may not work.  But we've had lots of years that was true.  They aren't changing it just because people are upset. 

 

But how does this fit into the plan? It's conceivable that Villar has a good first half and has value at the deadline. Isn't this about adding prospects? How does getting nothing for Villar help compile prospects?

The money saved? How does that help the farm system?

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, weams said:

They have better players and they trade them whether they are competing for playoffs or not. 

So Villar is not a good player? I won't believe we couldn't get something at the deadline. If you knew you were not going to pay him they should have moved him for what they could get. There is no excuse for this move!

Also as I've mentioned ...They are $100+ million under their TV money and could have paid him, they couldve extended him for less than $10 million  per.

This move just stinks!

And I'm shocked so many here are defending it

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, gtown said:

But how does this fit into the plan? It's conceivable that Villar has a good first half and has value at the deadline. Isn't this about adding prospects? How does getting nothing for Villar help compile prospects?

The money saved? How does that help the farm system?

Theoretically some of the money saved would go to improving the farm.  Players, scouts, instructors, facilities.

[weams]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Theoretically some of the money saved would go to improving the farm.  Players, scouts, instructors, facilities.

Theoretically. Or to 50 undervalued dominicans. 

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Villar is a flawed player and was often very frustrating to watch. His inexplicable defensive and base running miscues were frequent and frustrating. 

Villar’s baserunning  mistakes were very overblown, and few and far between.    It’s pretty well documented that he was one of the top 5 baserunners in MLB this year, per BB-ref, Fangraphs and BP.    Yes, he did make occasion mistakes by being too aggressive, but on balance he gained many more runs than he lost, and that’s just a statistical fact.    

Defensively, he was below average, but honestly I’ve seen a lot worse.    And that’s all taken into account when calculating WAR.

Bottom line, he’s a good if somewhat frustrating player.    I wouldn’t have waived him, but I’m not running the team and I’m not privy to everything Elias knows about the reasons for the move.   
 

 

[Philip]

11 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

And the Ray's aeem to trade their pitchers at the right time.Archer and Price.Very nice return for Archer.

Absolutely. Set the pipeline. Anticipate a need. Trade players with two years remaining. Bring up the new player that fills the need.

Repeat forever.

Manny wasn’t traded until the last second. That was stupid. Many other stupid moves because the process the Rays use, despite being simple and wise, is ignored.

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, gtown said:

But how does this fit into the plan? It's conceivable that Villar has a good first half and has value at the deadline. Isn't this about adding prospects? How does getting nothing for Villar help compile prospects?

The money saved? How does that help the farm system?

LOL .... you don't know??? They will sock it away to spend later (wink wink). It will fall into the greedy owners pockets!

This move does nothing to improve the watch-ability of their sorry ass product now or improve things in the future! So its a double negative!

[Roll Tide]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Theoretically some of the money saved would go to improving the farm.  Players, scouts, instructors, facilities.

I have some under the water property in Florida if your interested! If you think they will spend this $10 million later your dreaming!

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

Absolutely. Set the pipeline. Anticipate a need. Trade players with two years remaining. Bring up the new player that fills the need.

Repeat forever.

Manny wasn’t traded until the last second. That was stupid. Many other stupid moves because the process the Rays use, despite being simple and wise, is ignored.

Honestly Philip ... And I know we don't agree! But name one player move that Elias has done since he's been here that a buffoon couldnt have done?

He did nothing but pick up some rule 5 guys, trade Cashner for scratch offs, couldn;t get a deal done at the deadline, no international signings of note, and now moving Villar for nothing via DFA.

Yeah I know ...its a process! But all I have seen is hiring of his buddies to cushy front office jobs and use our 1st rounder that was earned before he was hired to draft Rutschman (which anyone couldve done).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jerios55]

1 minute ago, gtown said:

But how does this fit into the plan? It's conceivable that Villar has a good first half and has value at the deadline. Isn't this about adding prospects? How does getting nothing for Villar help compile prospects?

The money saved? How does that help the farm system?

Here's the thing.  I dont know.  But I don't think anyone here truly does.   

They likely knew that they didn't want to pay Villar 7-10mill for 2020 and didn't even take a Cashner like deal at the deadline.  With a 2x on salary and no future rights he's going to be more attractive next year? Without knowing what was offered, I don't know.  They didn't make a trade July 19 or this offseason.   2 17yos out of DR would have been better but didn't happen.  That says something to me as well. 

I also don't know the budget or where elias is allocating.   Is it scouting, analytics or just pocketing?  Does this 8-10 mill go somewhere.   Is it banked...  

I agree it looks bad.   And I'm certainly not excited about the move.  Im still trying to see if he's officially a fa or if a trade is possible.   There is so much negative I can't find the informative stuff that makes the OH better than any other os news source I've found (please don't close it )