I really want to keep Villar (Update: Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas)

[weams]

20 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Which means that it was a terrible play and decision by Elias. And your right ...He probably gets 3 years 28-36 million

My point early about $6.5-7.5 million was that I thought he could be extended midseason for somewhere in that ballpark

I meant the Orioles will not be signing him for the 7 million dollar value after 1 and before 8. He's gone. No compensation. Because he is too expensive for the league, not because Elias bundered. The league spoke. We should listen. 

[weams]

He did not have a market last trade deadline. He has not had one since. He does not have one now. Because of the expense attached and the lack of front office values for his skills across the league. 

[Roll Tide]

7 minutes ago, weams said:

I meant the Orioles will not be signing him for the 7 million dollar value after 1 and before 8. He's gone. No compensation. Because he is too expensive for the league, not because Elias blundered.

Quote

The league spoke. We should listen. 

 

We can agree to disagree...but lets chat about it when he signs. If he signs for less than 7 million I will throw up my hands and admit you were right!

Quote

ELIAS spoke. THE LEAGUE listened

In the article you quoted in the SUN. Elias told the 29 other GMS that he wasn't going to tender him as it made no sense to give a guy 10 million to play for a club that would lose 100 games.

If you were a rival GM why on earth would you trade assets for him when you were told by the man that he was going to be released?

[atomic]

17 minutes ago, weams said:

He did not have a market last trade deadline. He has not had one since. He does not have one now. Because of the expense attached and the lack of front office values for his skills across the league. 

I am sure he will be signed.  He is a better player than Schoop who had the exact same scenario last season and whom got a nice contract after being waived.  Other teams want him but not with the uncertainty that arbitration hearing will bring.

[Roll Tide]

12 minutes ago, weams said:

He did not have a market last trade deadline. He has not had one since. He does not have one now. Because of the expense attached and the lack of front office values for his skills across the league. 

 

 

From Roch ..in August 2019

Quote

Elias never felt pressured to make a deal yesterday - again based on the lack of pending free agents. He simply wasn’t going to settle.

Miscalculation if you werent going to tender him!

[HowAboutThat]

4 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Someone is going to sign him and like @weams said its not going to be for 7 million. And yes it will likely be without giving up any trade assets. Which was an Oriole blunder by saying they werent going to tender him. As an opposing GM, why trade anything for him when you were told by the man that he was going to be released

I don’t think that will happen, but I agree that that is Mike’s gamble.

however it is clear that so far, no one was willing to pay 1/10, for him, even when given away for free.

he may get 2/12 or 3/15, but I doubt it for several reasons.

And it is also true that when his past teams got good, they got rid of him on the grounds That he was no longer good enough for their team. Houston and then the Brewers.

[Roll Tide]

6 minutes ago, Philip said:

I don’t think that will happen, but I agree that that is Mike’s gamble.

however it is clear that

Quote

so far, no one was willing to pay 1/10, for him, even when given away for free

or free.

he may get 2/12 or 3/15, but I doubt it for several reasons.

And it is also true that when his past teams got good, they got rid of him on the grounds That he was no longer good enough for their team. Houston and then the Brewers.

1) What do you see happening? 2 or more claims an a trade?

 

2) so far, no one was willing to pay 1/10, for him, even when given away for free".... Its a deadline issue so you have no way of knowing if he's been claimed and by how many teams

3) By 2/12 you mean $6m per ? or 3/15 $5M per? Wait and see!

4) C'mon .... He wasn't starting in Houston. He was blocked an traded for a pitching prospect.  The Brewers GM was Sterns who was the assistant GM of the Astros.

[HowAboutThat]

11 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

1) What do you see happening? 2 or more claims an a trade?

 

2) so far, no one was willing to pay 1/10, for him, even when given away for free".... Its a deadline issue so you have no way of knowing if he's been claimed and by how many teams

3) By 2/12 you mean $6m per ? or 3/15 $5M per? Wait and see!

4) C'mon .... He wasn't starting in Houston. He was blocked an traded for a pitching prospect.  The Brewers GM was Sterns who was the assistant GM of the Astros.

1)  I have no idea what will happen, I only understand what Mike’s gamble is. 

2) To this point, No one was willing to acquire him and his arbitration obligations, even for free. That’s why I said “so far”

3) Yes, I am referring to years and annual salary. But I do doubt it will happen. I think he will end up signing with another team that is farther along than the Orioles, because it’s better to play for a 75 win team then a 55 win team. I could see him going to Seattle, for instance I could also see him ending up in Texas, the Rangers are unhappy with Odor.

[Roll Tide]

13 minutes ago, Philip said:

1)  I have no idea what will happen, I only understand what Mike’s gamble is. 

2) To this point, No one was willing to acquire him and his arbitration obligations, even for free. That’s why I said “so far”

3) Yes, I am referring to years and annual salary. But I do doubt it will happen. I think he will end up signing with another team that is farther along than the Orioles, because it’s better to play for a 75 win team then a 55 win team. I could see him going to Seattle, for instance I could also see him ending up in Texas, the Rangers are unhappy with Odor.

1) OK

2) Thats a big assumption unless you work in the MLB front office'

3) Im hoping for mulitple claims and a deal to the Reds

[CallMeBrooksie]

5 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

 And your right ...He probably gets 3 years 28-36 million

Do you actually believe this?? I think you might benefit from taking a step back and just seeing how this all shakes out. You might be surprised.

[Roll Tide]

20 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

Do you actually believe this?? I think you might benefit from taking a step back and just seeing how this all shakes out. You might be surprised.

Ummm Yes ...Wait and see

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

1) OK

2) Thats a big assumption unless you work in the MLB front office'

3) Im hoping for mulitple claims and a deal to the Reds

I have no idea what’s going on in the various front offices, we can only judge by what has actually happened. And what has happened is that no one has acquired him. Anybody who did, prior to his being placed on waivers, would’ve had to give up something for him, and also they would need to accept his arbitration obligations.

obviously, that hasn’t happened. 

 I have absolutely no doubt that everybody who needs a second baseman is interested in him if the price is right. Even we are interested in him returning if the price is right, but as I said in my previous comment I doubt he wants to return to a 60 win team. 

I do not know how many other teams need a second baseman, but I think the Rangers would be really interested. Despite his carelessness, Villar Would be a sizable upgrade on defense over Rougned Odor, and the Rangers have tons of money. They are focusing on pitching at the moment, so a low-calorie 2B might be right up their alley.

 I do think he can get a three-year deal, but the annual salary won’t be very big. 

[sportsfan8703]

Does anyone know exactly when we have to trade him by?

[Luke-OH]

59 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Does anyone know exactly when we have to trade him by?

So I have been looking into the waiver rules, it’s confusing because there are multiple types of waivers with different sets of rules.

I’ve also tried to trace the reporting to see if there are some misunderstandings out there. This is what I’ve came up with.

Roch tweeted that Villar was on waivers. Connolly and Trezza confirmed that the Orioles had requested outright waivers on Villar. 

But those are different things.

Outright waivers are nonrevocable. So once he’s on waivers, he’s off the 40 man and no longer tradable. Requesting waivers is like DFA when the 40 man isn’t full. It gives the team time to work out a trade. Similarly to how when a team DFA someone, they have a period of time to try and trade the player.

So I think there has been some unclear or mistaken reporting. There is literally no reason to put him on waivers rather than non-tender him unless you need a roster spot. So something else is going on. It’s been reported he’s still on the 40, which if true means he’s not on waivers yet. 

So basically it seems like they requested waivers for Monday to show teams that if they just were waiting for him to get non-tendered, that wouldn’t work, he’d get snatched on waivers by a team with higher priority. If that’s the case, the reporting of him on waivers seems shoddy at best.

[Roll Tide]

20 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

So I have been looking into the waiver rules, it’s confusing because there are multiple types of waivers with different sets of rules.

I’ve also tried to trace the reporting to see if there are some misunderstandings out there. This is what I’ve came up with.

Roch tweeted that Villar was on waivers. Connolly and Trezza confirmed that the Orioles had requested outright waivers on Villar. 

But those are different things.

Outright waivers are nonrevocable. So once he’s on waivers, he’s off the 40 man and no longer tradable. Requesting waivers is like DFA when the 40 man isn’t full. It gives the team time to work out a trade. Similarly to how when a team DFA someone, they have a period of time to try and trade the player.

So I think there has been some unclear or mistaken reporting. There is literally no reason to put him on waivers rather than non-tender him unless you need a roster spot. So something else is going on. It’s been reported he’s still on the 40, which if true means he’s not on waivers yet. 

So basically it seems like they requested waivers for Monday to show teams that if they just were waiting for him to get non-tendered, that wouldn’t work, he’d get snatched on waivers by a team with higher priority. If that’s the case, the reporting of him on waivers seems shoddy at best.

 

 

Well Roch's article says this

Quote

Jonathan Villar was placed on outright waivers yesterday and he’s still on them. No team has claimed him.

 

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2019/11/more-on-villars-placement-on-outright-waivers.html

 

Quote

The Orioles are trying hard to trade him, as I’ve reported. They were in an aggressive mode at the July deadline, with the Cubs one of the teams engaged in talks, but no one took the bait.

Executive vice president/ general manager Mike Elias isn’t making a non-tender or waiver claim his first choices among the potential outcomes. He wants to strike a deal and get a player or two in return, probably to help stock rosters at the lower levels, whether the Rookie-level Dominican Summer League or Gulf Coast League, or Single-A.

Failing to do so is leading to a parting with zero compensation beyond salary relief. Villar can become a free agent by Monday’s 8 p.m. deadline to tender contracts to arbitration-eligible players.