Montanez on the bench...again

[utvolzac]

I'm sure he'll get worked into that rotation, too.

Mora, Huff, and Millar are hitting incredibly well right now. There's no reason to sit them. When one of them stops hitting, then sure, give up some of their ABs.

What is your definition of incredibly well.

Mora and Huff are hot right now.

But Millar is hitting .244 over his last 10 games. Luke Scott is hitting a more respectable .265. Not exactly world beating numbers. Certainly not numbers that are indispensable to the line up.

Have standards fallen so far around here that that passes for incredible?

[murrayfan420]

But come September 1st, if Lou isn't starting 5 - 6 times a week there is something fudamentally wrong with this organization.

I couldn't agree more.

[glorydays]

Here is how I look at it... if we traded for a 26 year old former #3 draft pick who was hitting .335/.385/.601 in AA we would all want to see him play everyday. There would be little discussion about his age or his previous year's stats... am I right?

[bluedog]

This is one of my biggest pet peeves, especially in this situation. There's no experiment that needs to be done. Trembley has managed Montanez before. He knows what he is as a CF'er. The Orioles have had scouts in the system follow him and see him play CF. Very, very good bet that the Orioles know exactly what they'd be getting out of him as a CF'er, why on earth would they want to experiment with it? To prove to the fans one way or the other? Well, I don't want that. No way will I ever want the Orioles to put themselves in harm's way for the sole purpose of killing a fan's curiousity.

You can't have it both ways. If we know that he's incapable of playing CF due to his minor league play, then we should also by correlation know that he IS capable of playing LF by his minor league play and we shouldn't need to figure out if he can handle LF in the majors.

The reality is that he has played CF at Bowie this season and although he's not a great CFer, he's been acceptable there by all accounts.

Certainly he's not going to be asked to play CF with any regularity - that's Adam Jones' territory. But the evidence from Bowie suggests that he can play CF in a pinch. And if he's to be considered the O's 4th outfielder next year, then he better be able to step into CF in the event Jones gets hurt.

And if coaches are so certain about what players can and can't do, how come they are so consistently wrong with their personnel decisions? Why did Melvin Mora get stuck at Utility Infielder for so long? Why was Scott pigeonholed as a part time player? Why was there any question about whether Brian Roberts or Jerry Hairston was the better solution at 2b?

The fact is that Trembley may or may not have ever seen Montanez play CF when he was coaching him. Maybe the question of him playing that position never came up. If he never asked him to play the position, how could he have effectively evaluated his ability to do it?

But whether or not he's able to play CF well or not isn't the question. Who cares if he plays a below average CF for the next few months, the point is to get him playing time and at bats. His potential starting role with the team is either in LF or at DH. In both cases his primary contribution would be with his bat, not his glove.

So playing him in CF now could tell us two things - 1) Can he play an acceptable CF and therefore be considered an emergency backup at that position and 2) Can he consistently hit major league pitching

Those two things can help Trembely determine if he can play a role with the O's in 2009 and beyond and what role that might be. Sitting him on the bench helps us determine nothing valuable at all.

[J.D.]

I don't care if they are all putting up Hall of Fame numbers - the thing that's in the best interest of the organization is to find playing time for our future players, not guys who are soon to be ex-Orioles.

Wins at this point mean virtually nothing to this club. We're still a last place, sub .500 ballclub. Do we really want to mortgage the future (for the 11th year in a row) in an attempt to pad individual stats or to desperately chase after an 83 - 81 season when it won't mean a post season berth?

The only reason to keep playing those guys that makes sense from an organizational standpoint is to showcase them for possible trades. If they've cleared waivers and we're attempting to move them, then I can see the value of playing them. If we can move any of them to clear roster space or payroll or to bring back a valuable player, then Lou can sit for a few more weeks.

But come September 1st, if Lou isn't starting 5 - 6 times a week there is something fudamentally wrong with this organization.

I just love statements like the one bolded. If we're not playing a guy that's been a an awful hitter above AA and will be taking at bats away from people that have been hitting well lately, then there's something fundamentally wrong with the organization. Never mind that the organization, as a whole, has a direction for a change. Nope. Lou freaking Montanez is the straw, man. A guy you never even heard of before this year... that's going to be your breaking point? Seriously? Yikes.

Wins at this point are not virtually meaningless at this point. Why do people keep saying this? What happened to the Orioles fans that want to see the team win? Good lord. Where am I right now? Did I die? Is this my purgatory?

Wins have value because, well, they're wins. Last I checked, collecting them was kinda the point of playing baseball. Mora, Millar, and Huff have put up solid seasons, and in Huff's case an exceptional season. Where's the reward for those guys that busted their humps for us all year? Do you really value their contribution that little because "they're not going to be here next year?"

[J.D.]

What is your definition of incredibly well.

Mora and Huff are hot right now.

But Millar is hitting .244 over his last 10 games. Luke Scott is hitting a more respectable .265. Not exactly world beating numbers. Certainly not numbers that are indispensable to the line up.

Have standards fallen so far around here that that passes for incredible?

Well, Scott's a chance to go off at any moment. When he's cold like he's been of late, he's still like a volcano. You don't know when he's going to go off.

Millar? Okay, my bad. I saw him hit three home runs this week and I got all excited about him.

[J.D.]

Here is how I look at it... if we traded for a 26 year old former #3 draft pick who was hitting .335/.385/.601 in AA we would all want to see him play everyday. There would be little discussion about his age or his previous year's stats... am I right?

If he had shown he couldn't hit at AAA (as Montanez has), I'd want to see if he could finally adjust to AAA before I clamored to see him up in the bigs. Making the exception for injury, of course.

[Insomniac]

For the life of me I cannot understand why so many people are devoting so much time and energy to trying to convince others that Montanez should get time in CF. From what I can tell so far, Scott with a bum wheel covers more ground and plays a better LF than Montanez. For those of you that think that maybe Montanez can play CF, then shouldn't you also believe that Scott can do the same?

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be a poor idea to play either of them in CF. I'm just trying to understand the logic. If Scott doesn't project as a part-time CF, then how can this rookie?

The real answer here, for those of you hating the ABs that Payton is getting, and for those of you willing to play outfielders out of position, is to play Markakis in CF a couple days a week.

Markakis is a gold-gove caliber right fielder with enough speed to play a league average CF. He has the skill to play CF one or two days a week, especially if those starts are limited to Camden Yards, where he can put in extra time shagging fly balls until he feels more comfortable with the position.

[utvolzac]

If he had shown he couldn't hit at AAA (as Montanez has), I'd want to see if he could finally adjust to AAA before I clamored to see him up in the bigs. Making the exception for injury, of course.

We're you this adamant about Markakis not getting regular at bats during his rookie year?

Markakis only had 100 or so at bats in AA before going to the majors and struggled horribly for the first couple months.

Montanez took a different path, but there is certainly a precedent for players making the transition from AA to the bigs. And it's not like he's looked lost during his brief apperances.

[bluedog]

If he had shown he couldn't hit at AAA (as Montanez has), I'd want to see if he could finally adjust to AAA before I clamored to see him up in the bigs. Making the exception for injury, of course.

So why isn't Oscar Salazar up then? He's crushed the ball all season at AAA but he's still sitting at Norfolk waiting for the O's to notice him. The guys been a doubles machine and is just a quality hitter all around and yet no love from the O's.

Bottom line is the O's don't care if you hit at AA or AAA. For some reason they just don't care about giving hitting prospects any chance in the majors if it comes at the expense of a veteran player, regardless of how poor they are playing.

[rooter]

Gotta love the Jon Knott and JR House guy of the year.

[J.D.]

We're you this adamant about Markakis not getting regular at bats during his rookie year?

Markakis only had 100 or so at bats in AA before going to the majors and struggled horribly for the first couple months.

Montanez took a different path, but there is certainly a precedent for players making the transition from AA to the bigs. And it's not like he's looked lost during his brief apperances.

I'll play with your oranges to apples comparison.

Markakis was a top prospect. The best prospect we'd had in years. I wasn't adamant about him getting at bats either way because I knew they'd come for him. He hit his way onto the team in spring training. He had too high of a ceiling for him not to play. I was excited for him.

Lou Montanez isn't Nick Markakis. Not even close. Before this completely anomalous season, he wasn't considered well... to be much of anything. He's 26 years old handling AA. If Montanez did that at 22 or 23, yeah, I'd be angry he's not getting at bats.

Please, tell me you don't think that the argument for Markakis and Montanez is anywhere near the same thing.

[J.D.]

So why isn't Oscar Salazar up then? He's crushed the ball all season at AAA but he's still sitting at Norfolk waiting for the O's to notice him. The guys been a doubles machine and is just a quality hitter all around and yet no love from the O's.

Bottom line is the O's don't care if you hit at AA or AAA. For some reason they just don't care about giving hitting prospects any chance in the majors if it comes at the expense of a veteran player, regardless of how poor they are playing.

Because Salazar is... how old again? Please remind me.

Oh, and because there's a jam-up of players playing the positions that he can play.

No, the O's don't care if you're hitting at AA or AAA if the guys above you in the bigs are playing like they're expected to play and doing the things that they're expected to do.

[Mike B]

Without question the odd man out at this point in the season is Kevin Millar.

Mora, we are stuck with next year.

Huff is hitting well and will be here next year.

Scott has a role with the team for the next few years.

Millar is a free agent and in his late 30's. He is clearly the odd man out.

Montanez at one time had potential. He might never be more than a 4th outfielder. But he might be a Guthrie part II, where the light comes on for a player to realize his talent, later in his career.

Regardless, it's worth it for the Orioles to find out what they have. Even if it's a just a 4th outfielder, at least he can contribute something to the team for the next few years. Millar on the other hand is easily the most replacable and with Huff firmly entrenched at DH and Tex being targeted as a must get, Millar most likely isn't going to be a factor next year anyway.

Besides that, you can still be the head cheerleader from the bench. Montanez on the other hand needs as many at bats as he can get, to be fairly evaluated.

Kind of glad to be stuck with Mora. 7th in the AL in RBI....

[utvolzac]

I'll play with your oranges to apples comparison.

Markakis was a top prospect. The best prospect we'd had in years. I wasn't adamant about him getting at bats either way because I knew they'd come for him. He hit his way onto the team in spring training. He had too high of a ceiling for him not to play. I was excited for him.

Lou Montanez isn't Nick Markakis. Not even close. Before this completely anomalous season, he wasn't considered well... to be much of anything. He's 26 years old handling AA. If Montanez did that at 22 or 23, yeah, I'd be angry he's not getting at bats.

Please, tell me you don't think that the argument for Markakis and Montanez is anywhere near the same thing.

I agree with you. I don't think theres even a 1% chance Montanez becomes as good as Markakis. And I said in a previous post that you have to take the AA numbers of a 26 yr old with a grain of salt. But they should at least give him an opportunity to prove himself.

You were saying Montanez needs to prove himself at AAA first. I'm just making the case that you can successfully make a transition from AA to MLB without having to dominate AAA first.