Montanez on the bench...again

[Sports Guy]

I'm saying our coaching staff knows a hell of a lot better if he can handle CF than you do.

The "play Montanez in CF" argument is only slightly less absurd than the "play Montanez in SS" argument.

Lets just stick to the "play Montanez in LF" argument, because that is at least a valid argument. The people claiming he should be starting everyday at CF or, even worse, SS are clearly delusional.

If he's not getting about 4 starts a week between LF and DH, I'll be upset. But him only getting 2 starts in his first 5 games isn't an indication that he won't be getting those 4 starts a week for the remainder of a season.

DT has already said Montanez will see some time in CF.

[ACE]

Trembley had 21 years in the minors & never got a call to manage in the bigs. The only reason he is here this year is that AM couldn't persuade his pick to take the job.

I don't know about this.

McPhail had ample opportunities that would have been easily justifiable to cut ties with Trembley. The tailspin in August, After he finished the season 13 games under .500, and the whole entire off-season.

If McPhail didn't buy into what Trembley is doing or atleast is intrigued by the possibilities, Trembley would not be here.

[SilentJames]

August 5: Brought in as a replacement for Scott. 0 at bats.

August 6: Starts in LF. 4 at bats. 2 hits.

August 8: Pinch hit for Scott. 1 at bat.

August 9: Pinch runner for Scott. 1 at bat.

August 10: Started in LF. 4 at bats. 3 hits.

Let's not pretend that Tremblay is maximizing his value. He has 10 at bats in 5 games. If he was starting between LF/DH everyday, he'd have twice that. The idea is to get a fair assessment, which means you need more than just some random sample sizes inflated and deflated by games where he's getting 1 at bat as a pinch hitter.

We have 45 games left. In that time Montanez could get roughly 180-200 at bats, give or take. Not ideal, but at least it's something solid to build an evaluation on. And that is without doing anything crazy like playing him in CF or SS.

Does anyone care if Millar or Mora lose 80-100 at bats? Anyone?

This is just stupid.

Could it be that, and here is a wild thought, they want to give him a break against a notoriously tough pitcher?

See, the thing is this, they ARE evaluating him, they practice with him. They have seen him all year in the minors, they know what he can do.

All you want is for YOU to evaluate him.

[utvolzac]

That is why I said PROJECTED. Scott for the next few and the next starter projected after that is Nolan. That is how things look RIGHT NOW.

Right now Luis is a fourth outfielder. Play him as one, that will be his role next year.

So we can project what Scott and Reimold are gonna do for the next 5 years. But we can't project what Montanez might be able to do for August and September.

Just because you keep "PROJECTING" Montanez is a 4th outfielder, doesn't make it any more true.

[SilentJames]

DT has already said Montanez will see some time in CF.

BUT HE ISN'T IN THERE NOW!!!

<img src=http://principlesofparenting.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/tantrum-boy.jpg></img>

[Eight]

He is a better option right now because he can play all OF positions, something you want in a fourth OF'er.

Luis' batting potential is higher sure, and he is younger. But he can only play RF and LF, all indications are that he lacks the range to consistently play CF.

I really don;t get why this is so hard for people to get.

Jay Payton's role on this team has been defensive sub and fourth OFer - he has done a decent enough job this season.

Jay Payton's offense is just as bad as Lou Montanez' defense is purported to be. Does that not matter? Payton cannot play LF or RF any more than Montanez can play CF because he's one of the worst hitters in the league to play regularly. His .286 OBP is better than only three of the 162 players with as many plate appearances as Payton. The three players who have been worse are all middle infielders.

Evaluations on who should play a certain position should be made irrespective of whether the players are good defender/bad hitters, good hitters/bad defenders, average hitters/average defenders, etc. They should be made based on which player's total value, offense and defense, is better. Given the likely huge gap in offensive ability between Payton and Montanez, any defensive difference between the two is largely going to be zeroed out.

Given that Payton will not continue on as an Oriole beyond this season and Montanez may be part of a future Orioles' team, he should not be playing ahead of anyone unless he is clearly better, which is not, in this case, true.

[Sports Guy]

BUT HE ISN'T IN THERE NOW!!!

<img src=http://principlesofparenting.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/tantrum-boy.jpg></img>

But he will be and posters like you will be saying that it is good to see...You won't bash DT for doing it or anything like that but yet when people on here complain about it, you pound your chest over it.

Again, whatever the Orioles do is fine with many people and if posters on here have an opinion against it, the crying normally starts.

[Roll Tide]

I don't know about this.

McPhail had ample opportunities that would have been easily justifiable to cut ties with Trembley. The tailspin in August, After he finished the season 13 games under .500, and the whole entire off-season.

If McPhail didn't buy into what Trembley is doing or atleast is intrigued by the possibilities, Trembley would not be here.

Mcphail chose Girardi... He declined the job to wait on the Yankees job.

1) Trembley has not done a poor job that merits being fired in the middle of the season.

2) Mcphails would likely need to see a guy available that he wants.

[Mackus]

DT has already said Montanez will see some time in CF.

He said something along the lines of "I'll play him there but only if he shows me and the coaches that he can play there. This isn't a development league, this is the big leagues. You don't put a guy out there to fail."

He might see some time, but not until the coaches work with him out there in practice and also only if he looks good enough in LF that its feasible he can handle CF. He certainly won't play out there right away.

I do think that he should play more than "a 4th OF" usually would. We shouldn't play him "as a 4th OF." He needs to play more than that simply because there aren't enough at bats left in the season that would usually go to the 4th OF. If he only got a 4th outfielders percentage of ABs over the remainder of the season, that wouldn't be nearly enough ABs to get a gauge on whether he can hit MLB pitching well-enough to fit into the plans next year in any capacity.

4 starts a week or more is the magic number for me. Sit each of Mora, Scott, Huff, and Millar once a week, with Montanez playing in LF each time and the others covering 3B, 1B, and DH.

[Roll Tide]

So we can project what Scott and Reimold are gonna do for the next 5 years. But we can't project what Montanez might be able to do for August and September.

Just because you keep "PROJECTING" Montanez is a 4th outfielder, doesn't make it any more true.

I agree ... The only way to find out how good/bad Montanez will be is to play him. Late inning replacement with 1 AB is hardly palying him everyday.

[SilentJames]

But he will be and posters like you will be saying that it is good to see...You won't bash DT for doing it or anything like that but yet when people on here complain about it, you pound your chest over it.

Again, whatever the Orioles do is fine with many people and if posters on here have an opinion against it, the crying normally starts.

What are you talking about? We agree about this. He should see some time in CF but people are acting like one great year in AA, which could easily be a fluke, is worth rearranging our entire outfield over.

Seriously, I hope he does get some time in center field but to start an indignant thread calling for Trembley's head each time he is not starting when Lou himself has said he "needs some time to adjust," is ridiculous.

There are SIX threads (one of which closed) on the front page about this nonsense. I have tried not to participate in this discussion for awhile, but the level or vitriol is getting ridiculous.

[SilentJames]

So we can project what Scott and Reimold are gonna do for the next 5 years. But we can't project what Montanez might be able to do for August and September.

Just because you keep "PROJECTING" Montanez is a 4th outfielder, doesn't make it any more true.

See here is the thing. You can't just throw out a AA lineup in Baltimore and expect the team to be interesting.

They have a plan for Montanez, and I'm not the one projecting him out like that. The fact that he has bounced around the minors for the last eight years, has never performed above AA (and even only did that a couple season scattered through his minor league career); and various reports et al say that.

People are talking like "he is the future" There is an equally good shot that Montanez isn't even in our organization next year.

This whole thing is Jon Knott all over again and look up his current numbers.

[TGO]

Everyone can prepare their "small sample size" rebuttals, but Jay Payton is a .444 (4-9) career hitter vs. the tough righty named Fausto Carmona. Of course, the point's already been made that Payton's playing because he's the best defensive option in CF.

Wanna sit Luke Scott? One of the team's most dangerous sticks against a righty.

Wanna sit Huff? A top hitter with a .714 career slugger vs Carmona.

Mora has a 1.101 career OPS vs. Fausto.

Even Millar, who's never had a hit off Fausto, does has three walks and a HBP for a nifty .571 on-base percentage.

Everybody shut up and read this post. ^^^

Fausto is a bad mutha. If they want to protect Lou on this one a little bit, I don't have a problem with that.

This is like when Adam Jones sat against Halladay in June or when Scott sat against Kenny Rogers after the ASB and half the board cried like babies. Get over it.

[utvolzac]

This is just stupid.

Could it be that, and here is a wild thought, they want to give him a break against a notoriously tough pitcher?

See, the thing is this, they ARE evaluating him, they practice with him. They have seen him all year in the minors, they know what he can do.

All you want is for YOU to evaluate him.

August 5: Garland - 4.28 era. Perfect 4/5 pitcher to start off against. 0 ABs

August 6: E. Santana - 3.45 era. Montanez starts, go 2-5 with a HR.

August 8: Mendoza (WHO!) 7.50 era. 1 AB in mop up duty.

August 9: Padilla - 4.85 era. Another league average pitcher. 1 Ab as a pinch runner

August 10: Harrison (WHO!) 7.07 era. 3-4.

Let me know when he sits against a "notoriously tough" pitcher. Unless they felt he needed a rest after all those grueling pinch hit/run/field situations.

As for the coaching knowing what he can do. I can't believe any of them would ever say that with a straight face.

26 year old hitting lights out in AA. Take those stats with a grain of salt. Impressive, but a 26 year old former #3 pick should be doing that against AA pitching.

As for "practice evaluation". Come on. This is a reach. I'm sure all our pitchers are using their best stuff at practice, so Montanez can get a real feel for major league pitching and the coaching staff can get a solid eval.

The only way to "Evaluate" him at this point in his career is to see what he can do against major league pitching. That goes for whether your a coach, a gm, a writer, an Hangouter or the peanut vendor. Your not getting a real evaluation off inflated AA numbers and practice at bats.

I've yet to see you give a legit response how Montanez splitting time at LF/DH at the expense of only Mora & Millarhas a downside. Except for the fact that you've appointed him as a 4th outfielder at 10 major league at bats.

[JTrea81]

What are you talking about? We agree about this. He should see some time in CF but people are acting like one great year in AA, which could easily be a fluke, is worth rearranging our entire outfield over.

It's worth benching Jay Payton over, that's for sure...