Roch: "I don't expect Villar back with the O's in 2020."

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

What is 1 WAR worth?

Market rate or for a 100 loss team?

[Roll Tide]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Market rate or for a 100 loss team?

Market rate

 

The 100 loss team thing is not really relevant to his value.

 

I believe he could've been trade a couple of places if all Elias wanted to do was move him. There were enough rumors and interest according to the media.

So if the plan was to non tender him, trading him now was the obvious move.

I personally would look to extend him now in order to avoid arbitration. I've mentioned a 2-3 year deal at 5.5 per year. If he is the player he's been the contract would hinder moving him.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Market rate

 

The 100 loss team thing is not really relevant to his value.

 

I believe he could've been trade a couple of places if all Elias wanted to do was move him. There were enough rumors and interest according to the media.

So if the plan was to non tender him, trading him now was the obvious move.

I personally would look to extend him now in order to avoid arbitration. I've mentioned a 2-3 year deal at 5.5 per year. If he is the player he's been the contract would hinder moving him.

 

 

The established rate is 8/win but this breaks down on both ends of the spectrum.  On one end Trout isn't getting 70-80 million a year.  On the other end if it is a 1-2 win player it is very possible that teams would rather roll the dice with someone making the minimum instead of paying them seven million.

The 2020 O's will be overpaying, based on team needs, if they are spending more than maybe 3M on a second baseman, ideally they will get someone for a million or less.

[makoman]

1 hour ago, cboemmeljr said:

The entire Wall to Wall show was actually a waste of 2 hours.  It was mainly Tom Davis' exercise in who are keepers or not for 2020.  He called Adley Rutschman a keeper and said that we would have 3 MLB catchers in 2020: Sisco, Severino and Rutschman.  While Villar may not be a keeper in 2020, Roch had to play along with Tom's game.

At least you found out what’s on sale at Weis this week. 

[Aristotelian]

10 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

I'm with you on this one.  He appears to be a  respectable starting-caliber MLB MIF with speed.  I don't quite understand how there was no interest (we could easily have paid the remainder of the year as well if it would sweeten the prospect return at all).  Perhaps he will have a wider market in the offseason when more teams are preparing their rosters for 2020.  I know the team wants to shed payroll, but I would have to think some other team with designs of contending would be interested in a 2 WAR SS/2B/Util guy with PR ability for $5 or $6MM.

+1, he is a solid player. Elias obviously didn't like the offers he got for him. He could be traded in the off-season or continue to serve as a placeholder while we continue to develop options. Maybe Roch knows something we don't, but I don't see why they wouldn't bring him back unless they are under orders from ownership to completely tank and cut salary.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

+1, he is a solid player. Elias obviously didn't like the offers he got for him. He could be traded in the off-season or continue to serve as a placeholder while we continue to develop options. Maybe Roch knows something we don't, but I don't see why they wouldn't bring him back unless they are under orders from ownership to completely tank and cut salary.

If the overriding concern was tanking and cutting salary Givens would be gone.  I'm sure someone would have agreed to take him for his contract.

I think it is as simple as Villar is not coveted by teams.   The Brewers obviously wanted him gone last year.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Coveted?  Maybe not but there were "reportedly" teams interested including the Cubs.  If that's true, and it was said there was no match there, then Elias couldn't get the deal he wanted or it was so little that holding onto Villar and even non tendering him seems like an insignificant lesser of two evils.

Interest in might have meant he was plan B or even C.

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Market rate or for a 100 loss team?

One month ago I would’ve agreed with you. Now I think the offense is clicking, so why change anything?  Does it really matter if we pay Villar $2 million over market value next year?  Maybe Villar hitting leadoff let’s the next few hitters be more comfortable?

I don’t know if there is hope for the SP or RP next year, but I have hope for this lineup,

Villar SS

Mancini LF

Santander RF

Nunez DH

Sisco/Severino C

Alberto 2B

Hays CF 

Mountcastle 1B

? 3B

Having that is worth $2 million of market value. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by sportsfan8703

[Can_of_corn]

We don't know the inner dynamics of team payroll.  It is easy for us to say they should spend money just so we have a more enjoyable product to watch next season.

[wildcard]

Villar is on pace to score 100 runs this season.

[sportsfan8703]

Mancini has a .919 OPS hitting 2nd in 241 PA. How much does Villar aid that?  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Villar is on pace to score 100 runs this season.

Nice job by the folks hitting behind him.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

We don't know the inner dynamics of team payroll.  It is easy for us to say they should spend money just so we have a more enjoyable product to watch next season.

Like I said, if the orders are to go full Marlins tank mode, he will get no tendered. However, that has never been Angelos' style, and if he has any budget at all I would make the case for holding onto anything that could potentially be a tradable asset.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Like I said, if the orders are to go full Marlins tank mode, he will get no tendered. However, that has never been Angelos' style, and if he has any budget at all I would make the case for holding onto anything that could potentially be a tradable asset.

Angelos isn't in charge anymore.

I also think not wanting to pay Villar doesn't mean the team is going into full tank mode.

[Il BuonO]

16 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

I would have paid half the salary and taken a PTBNL...no matter how poor the player. 

Don’t get this.

I’m no big fan of his now that I’ve seen him play every day. And all you Villar supporters, don’t get me wrong, he has a certain value-specifically to this team. 

However, Villar apparently has little value to the rest of the league. He’s not without his warts including being a hustle guy (stupidly aggressive at times) who apparently developed a bit of clubhouse cancer persona in Milwaukee when he lost playing time.

That said, this team is bad. Non-tender him and offer him a reasonable deal over two years that keeps him as placeholder.

They’re not getting rid of Martin after keeping him most of the year, but his bat is atrocious. Put him in Bowie and see if he can regain some confidence.

Villar can serve a useful purpose without costing much while the organization goes through the development of players who are considered longer term assets. If he says no, fine. Vaya con dios, senor.