What did Bleier do?

[Tx Oriole]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't see Bleier tendered either. He was a nice story a couple of years ago, but that ship has sailed and next year the Orioles should be giving bullpen time to guys who can help consistently. 

I agree.

[Going Underground]

3 hours ago, interloper said:

I was pretty surprised about Armstrong's reaction. He did not look happy nor did he seem to care one bit about standing up to Flores. It's just a blip in time, so it's hard to say, but it was an interesting reaction. 

Pitchers are known to stick together. Relief pitchers especially. 

[OFFNY]

20 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

I don't see Bleier tendered, either. He was a nice story a couple of years ago, but that ship has sailed ........ next year, the Orioles should be giving bullpen time to guys who can help consistently. 

 

o

 

If nothing else, he has had an awesome thread here on the OH.

 

Dick Bleier, Your New Favorite Reliever

 

 

 

o

[VaBird1]

9 hours ago, RZNJ said:

The shift giveth and taketh away.  The anti shifters seem to only notice the giveth part.  Harold Reynolds cracks me up when he only points out when a shift didn't work.

Just wanted to share why he might have been frustrated

[LA2]

7 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

But seriously, I think Frobby hit the nail on the head when he said Bleier was able to hit his spots in the past. And he has been lucky. His FIP in 2017 was 4.37, for example. He has also avoided home runs during his run with the Orioles. It is interesting to note that he is a ground ball pitcher (his career GB% is over 60 and has been over 60 with the Orioles), so he does rely a lot on infield defense. I suspect the Orioles mediocre to poor infield defense has hurt Bleier more than shifts. Probably a lot more. But it's easy to imagine that Bleier might vent some frustration at the shift and the 3B coach who implements the shift plan. That's easier than yelling at his mediocre to poor infielders. 

Some interesting points in here.

I don't think FIP is relevant to a pitcher like Bleier.

Yeah I think Bleier is the type who quietly respects and has the respect of his teammates. (Unlike Palmer turning around to position his outfielders or that baseball talent-wise decent catcher we released early in the season.) Look at the way Armstrong, a player who has a tenuous hold on his place on any major league roster, jumped in to tell Flores in no uncertain terms to get off Bleier's back.

The O's D should be plenty good for Bleier. After all, don't we always put six infielders behind him? Oh, yeah, I see, the problem is that two of them are usually deep in the OF....

 

[Can_of_corn]

Why is Bleier immune to FIP?  Is it because he managed to outperform if for a few years in the pen?

[LA2]

51 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why is Bleier immune to FIP?  Is it because he managed to outperform if for a few years in the pen?

Because the 2*K factor that counteracts the bloat caused by the 13*HR and 3*(BB + HBP) factors is not his game. Is he "immune" to the bad effects of home runs and walks/HBPs? No, of course not. Is he partially vaccinated against them by desirably high ground-ball rates (especially if he has a good IF behind him)? Yes, but that isn't in the FIP formula.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Because the 2*K factor that counteracts the bloat caused by the 13*HR and 3*(BB + HBP) factors is not his game. Is he "immune" to the bad effects of home runs and walks/HBPs? No, of course not. Is he partially vaccinated against them by desirably high ground-ball rates (especially if he has a good IF behind him)? Yes, but that isn't in the FIP formula.

I'd need to see about another three seasons of info for a guy out of the pen before I decided that was actually a thing and not background noise.

So if he has a good defense behind him his ERA will be better than his FIP?  I would hope that is true of every pitcher.

[LA2]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd need to see about another three seasons of info for a guy out of the pen before I decided that was actually a thing and not background noise.

So if he has a good defense behind him his ERA will be better than his FIP?  I would hope that is true of every pitcher.

Treating your points in reverse order:

Think of it arithmetically: yes, every pitcher benefits from a good defense behind him, but (a) in Bleier's case, it is more specifically the IF defense and (b) some pitchers benefit from said good infield proportionately more than others--in Bleier's case extremely more (he can't K his way around a bad IF).

If I were considering acquiring Bleier for my pen about a year ago, I would be very encouraged by the fact that he was a not-only-a-LOOGY southpaw who had just come off of three seasons covering 111 appearances of a sub-2.00 ERA. He's too old to wait for three more seasons of data.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Treating your points in reverse order:

Think of it arithmetically: yes, every pitcher benefits from a good defense behind him, but (a) in Bleier's case, it is more specifically the IF defense and (b) some benefit from said good IF proportionately more than others--in Bleier's case extremely more (he can't K his way around a bad IF).

If I were considering acquiring Bleier for my pen about a year ago, I would be very encouraged by the fact that he was a southpaw who had just come off of three seasons covering 111 appearances of a sub-2.00 ERA. He's too old to wait for three more seasons of data.

 

 

What kind of prospect package would you have been willing to give up for his sparkling ERA?  

Anyone good?

[tntoriole]

10 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

This angle shows Flores and the gang going into tunnel and Flores giving Armstrong some stern stuff after they return to dugout.  Kind of looks like Flores had the last word here.  

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/27489075

I was pretty sure Flores was in the wrong just with the first clip, but this one is even worse.  It looks like Flores challenging Bleier to come down the tunnel, Armstrong must have gone down after them, then coming back up, Flores sticking his finger right in Armstong’s face.  I tell you what, if some guy stuck his finger in my dad’s face like that, he would have punched him out. 

And how come Bleier and Hyde answer questions but Flores gets a pass?  He needs to apologize for his stupid behavior and explain his actions to the fans. 

[tntoriole]

And Hyde needs to set some discipline...telling both players and, mostly, his coaching staff...no more public, Billy Martin outbursts in this dugout the rest of this season  or your rear is either suspended (player) or fired (coaching staff). 

[Ohfan67]

The more I think about it, the more the whole thing seems silly and unimportant.  

[Curse of the Bamdino]

I'll say this much: that they're this frustrated and agitated shows, as has been mentioned already, that these guys actually give a rip. Admittedly, we didn't see that often last season. 

Just my opinion, but that doesn't seem to be the kind of behavior/temperament you'd see from an actively tanking/quitting/towel-throwing-in team. Someone should enlighten that numbskull Heyman about this. 

[LA2]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

What kind of prospect package would you have been willing to give up for his sparkling ERA?  

Anyone good?

I appreciate your throwing in the towel. No one here was arguing that Bleier was anything more than a promising bet as a draftee or FA or equivalent of  PTBNL, which is what he's been his entire career--and successfully until the injury last year. I'm glad he worked out superbly for the O's over an 88-game stint during dreary 2017-18.