What did Bleier do?

[Ohfan67]

4 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I'm sure the Orioles do have some of those data for Bleier and for the hitters..and I'm very confident that those are the data they use to make their shifts. I don't think it's random. I strongly suspect the Orioles are placing fielders in high probability spots for Bleier and the hitters he faces, but balls were not hit to those spots last night and, let's face it, the Orioles infield ain't exactly the best in the business. 

But I don't think Bleier can "aim" ground balls. He doesn't have Greg Maddox wizard skills.

[Going Underground]

7 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Vesna Vulovic was a 23 year old flight attendant for Yugoslav Airlines who fell 33,000 feet from a plane and survived. Weird stuff happens. 

 

[Frobby]

On the subject of Bleier the pitcher, while his stuff was never overwhelming, this year he has just never looked right to me.    He was much better at hitting his spots in the past, and his pitches just seem to have less movement this year.    I can’t tell whether he just needs to have a normal offseason and spring training to recover, or whether he’s just lost his edge and won’t be able to get it back.    The decision about whether to tender him a contract will be a tricky one.  

[Ohfan67]

3 minutes ago, LA2 said:

That's incredible. But do you think he could do it 111 times (the number of games Bleier appeared in during his three sub-2.00 ERA seasons in a row)?

I think it's incredibly obvious: Bleier sold his soul to the devil. I mean, what else could it be? 

[Tx Oriole]

8 hours ago, LookitsPuck said:

Some real hothead coaches and managers we’ve got here. Gross.

Hothead coaches? If you were the manager and some punk got in your face and said FU? What would you do? Is it the coaches fault some kid can’t pitch worth a damn? Well if Davis can’t defend his base when a coach positions him in an area. 

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

On the subject of Bleier the pitcher, while his stuff was never overwhelming, this year he has just never looked right to me.    He was much better at hitting his spots in the past, and his pitches just seem to have less movement this year.    I can’t tell whether he just needs to have a normal offseason and spring training to recover, or whether he’s just lost his edge and won’t be able to get it back.    The decision about whether to tender him a contract will be a tricky one.  

I'm not sure what I'd offer, but I'd offer him something.  I don't anticipate us having an absolutely stacked, dominant bullpen next year so it's worth seeing if he can get back on track.  I agree, he doesn't look 100% and I'd like to see what an offseason with the analytics, coaching and adjustments could do for him.  

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

On the subject of Bleier the pitcher, while his stuff was never overwhelming, this year he has just never looked right to me.    He was much better at hitting his spots in the past, and his pitches just seem to have less movement this year.    I can’t tell whether he just needs to have a normal offseason and spring training to recover, or whether he’s just lost his edge and won’t be able to get it back.    The decision about whether to tender him a contract will be a tricky one.  

He is arbitration eligible. 

How much are they willing to pay him? $1M? 

I agree he doesn’t look the same and I also feel he has been a little unlucky since he came back this year after he went back on DL. I don’t think he was ready at all earlier. 

[Ohfan67]

6 minutes ago, LA2 said:

That's incredible. But do you think he could do it 111 times (the number of games Bleier appeared in during his three sub-2.00 ERA seasons in a row)?

But seriously, I think Frobby hit the nail on the head when he said Bleier was able to hit his spots in the past. And he has been lucky. His FIP in 2017 was 4.37, for example. He has also avoided home runs during his run with the Orioles. It is interesting to note that he is a ground ball pitcher (his career GB% is over 60 and has been over 60 with the Orioles), so he does rely a lot on infield defense. I suspect the Orioles mediocre to poor infield defense has hurt Bleier more than shifts. Probably a lot more. But it's easy to imagine that Bleier might vent some frustration at the shift and the 3B coach who implements the shift plan. That's easier than yelling at his mediocre to poor infielders. 

[atomic]

12 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Hothead coaches? If you were the manager and some punk got in your face and said FU? What would you do? Is it the coaches fault some kid can’t pitch worth a damn? Well if Davis can’t defend his base when a coach positions him in an area. 

I don't think it would have happened with last years coaches.  We had a couple of good coaches in Wayne Kirby and Bobby Dickerson that the players seemed to like and gave praise to.  I am sure Hyde didn't have the time to get all the guys he wanted.  Perhaps keeping one of the two would have helped the team. 

Bleier didn't get in anyone's face.  He didn't even turn to look at the coach.  Sometimes you have to let things go. It is one thing for the Manager to be aggressive with players but I think the coaches have to be a little more player friendly.  

Bleier said something in the heat of the moment.  He is upset about the results on the field and is struggling. I mean a good coach discusses it later instead of going after the guy. 

 

[atomic]

12 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

He is arbitration eligible. 

How much are they willing to pay him? $1M? 

I agree he doesn’t look the same and I also feel he has been a little unlucky since he came back this year after he went back on DL. I don’t think he was ready at all earlier. 

You don't have to take him to arbitration. Offer him the salary you think he is worth.  Most likely he takes the money.   He isn't dealing from a position of strength. 

[eddie83]

34 minutes ago, LA2 said:

It had never occurred to me before, but maybe a pitcher like Bleier, who relies so much on command and wile, has been surprisingly successful precisely because he was able to get hitters to hit the ball to fielders where they are traditionally positioned. Extreme shifting, based on data against a large number of more "normal" pitchers (I presume), may screw up his whole mode.

I would be curious if he was just ticked off last night because he got frustrated or he genuinely is upset about the positioning over the course of the year. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

I don't think it would have happened with last years coaches.

Last year’s team played like they didn’t give a damn.     So yes, probably this wouldn’t have happened.    

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

But seriously, I think Frobby hit the nail on the head when he said Bleier was able to hit his spots in the past. And he has been lucky. His FIP in 2017 was 4.37, for example. He has also avoided home runs during his run with the Orioles. It is interesting to note that he is a ground ball pitcher (his career GB% is over 60 and has been over 60 with the Orioles), so he does rely a lot on infield defense. I suspect the Orioles mediocre to poor infield defense has hurt Bleier more than shifts. Probably a lot more. But it's easy to imagine that Bleier might vent some frustration at the shift and the 3B coach who implements the shift plan. That's easier than yelling at his mediocre to poor infielders. 

I'm interested in him as long as he can still get grounders at that clip.  In an environment where everyone's obsessed with launch angle and they've put helium in the baseball, I'm all about guys that can do a better than average job of keeping it on the ground.  

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, atomic said:

You don't have to take him to arbitration. Offer him the salary you think he is worth.  Most likely he takes the money.   He isn't dealing from a position of strength. 

I know that. My point is what are they willing to pay him? He would be getting some kind of a raise. I agree this isn’t someone where it is about big money. 

To me his age works against him as well. That said I could see if they value his intangibles and he is good in the clubhouse wanting him back. They may feel a full offseason he could get closer to where he was. 

[Just Regular]

23 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think Bleier is necessarily doing that but I think over the course of a long time, analytics might show that he tends to have batters hit grounders in certain spots.  I'm not saying they definitely keep track of that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.  And I wouldn't be surprised if there are some trends that allow for positioning of infielders when he or any other pitcher is on the mound.

Think about it, a guy like Bundy is proficient at giving up homers.  We can all recognize that because it smacks us in the face.  And we know when a pitcher is a groundball pitcher.  It stands to reason that they know that a pitcher gives up more grounders, say, down the lines than up the middle or vice versa. 

I don't think Bleier is intentionally aiming grounders to specific spots but I bet that just happens naturally for him.

They often show the wedges of hitters groundball spray charts, but I agree tracking PITCHERS groundball spray charts is something that also happens.  If MASN has a Bleier graphic for his next appearance, it would be a great time to show it.

I would guess like GB/FB mix the batter is more in control of it, but that if a pitcher's work created any signal in the noise it could get factored in.  If we can have personalized medicine, why not personalized positioning.