What did Bleier do?

[Moose Milligan]

I'm gonna say it....this fanbase is way too conservative.  And I'm not talking politics.  I'm talking, like, someone does something that's slightly outta line and all of a sudden he's gotta go.  That's okay when it's someone we celebrate like Earl Weaver aims his fury at an umpire because he won, games, count em, games!  Dammit!  But if it's a lowly third base coach and he's aiming it at a middling reliever (and Bleier is middling) during a bad season and the start of a rebuild...well, the pitchforks come out.  All of a sudden Hyde's gotta go (or be on the hot seat at least) because he pissed off the first baseman that everyone wants off the team.  Seriously, wtf.  

Let's be real with one another here, not a single one of us knows the first thing about what he's done or hasn't done for this team.  Not a single one of us knows if he's loved or hated by the players and Hyde.  All we really know about a third base coach is that we criticize him when he gives the go signal to a guy rounding third and that guy gets thrown out at the plate by 10 feet and we can all say "Yeah, the third base coach shouldn't have sent him there, not with that rightfielder's arm."

 

 

[LA2]

Said manager Brandon Hyde: “I guess there was some disagreement about some positioning during his inning. On the mound, he just left it a little bit too early for me, but at least he didn't come at me and try to crush me like Mr. Davis over there did haha. Woah!”

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, interloper said:

Flores got to go, IMO.

 

28 minutes ago, survivedc said:

I agree. Can’t have coaches breaking during a tough season.

Absolutely.   Let’s fire the guy based on a video clip showing a ten second exchange with a player, where we can’t hear what was said and have no surrounding context.    That’s a sound basis for judging whether Flores has been a good coach and whether he did anything worth getting fired over here.    

Honestly, I can’t believe how quick people are to pronounce judgment around here.    

[clapdiddy]

Bleier has been getting by on smoke and mirrors for his tenure here.   I cringe every time that guy enters the game.

That being said, he didn't try to show Flores up.   If he said something, it wasn't "in your face" until Flores made an issue of it.   Flores should have let it go and talked to him later instead of blowing up like that.  

I do agree with others that this has no bearing on Flores' ability as a coach.

[Ohfan67]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm gonna say it....this fanbase is way too conservative.  And I'm not talking politics.  I'm talking, like, someone does something that's slightly outta line and all of a sudden he's gotta go.  That's okay when it's someone we celebrate like Earl Weaver aims his fury at an umpire because he won, games, count em, games!  Dammit!  But if it's a lowly third base coach and he's aiming it at a middling reliever (and Bleier is middling) during a bad season and the start of a rebuild...well, the pitchforks come out.  All of a sudden Hyde's gotta go (or be on the hot seat at least) because he pissed off the first baseman that everyone wants off the team.  Seriously, wtf.  

Let's be real with one another here, not a single one of us knows the first thing about what he's done or hasn't done for this team.  Not a single one of us knows if he's loved or hated by the players and Hyde.  All we really know about a third base coach is that we criticize him when he gives the go signal to a guy rounding third and that guy gets thrown out at the plate by 10 feet and we can all say "Yeah, the third base coach shouldn't have sent him there, not with that rightfielder's arm."

 

 

Good take. I did a little of this in the thread. Mea culpa. 

[Ohfan67]

9 minutes ago, LA2 said:

It had never occurred to me before, but maybe a pitcher like Bleier, who relies so much on command and wile, has been able to get hitters to hit the ball to fielders where they are traditionally positioned. Extreme shifting, based on data against a large number of more "normal" pitchers (I presume), may screw up his whole mode.

You think Bleier is like aiming ground balls to specific spots on the infield? 

[LA2]

2 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

You think Bleier is like aiming ground balls to specific spots on the infield? 

It's possible, on some unconscious level. How else does a pitcher with his stuff put up such good ERAs several years running?

[Ohfan67]

In the big scheme of things this stuff is super meaningless. This wasn't exactly Dibble vs. Pinella. Link: LANGUAGE WARNING

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Ohfan67 said:

You think Bleier is like aiming ground balls to specific spots on the infield? 

I don't think Bleier is necessarily doing that but I think over the course of a long time, analytics might show that he tends to have batters hit grounders in certain spots.  I'm not saying they definitely keep track of that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.  And I wouldn't be surprised if there are some trends that allow for positioning of infielders when he or any other pitcher is on the mound.

Think about it, a guy like Bundy is proficient at giving up homers.  We can all recognize that because it smacks us in the face.  And we know when a pitcher is a groundball pitcher.  It stands to reason that they know that a pitcher gives up more grounders, say, down the lines than up the middle or vice versa. 

I don't think Bleier is intentionally aiming grounders to specific spots but I bet that just happens naturally for him.

[Ohfan67]

1 minute ago, LA2 said:

It's possible, on some unconscious level. How else does a pitcher with his stuff put up such good ERAs several years running?

Vesna Vulovic was a 23 year old flight attendant for Yugoslav Airlines who fell 33,000 feet from a plane and survived. Weird stuff happens. 

[Going Underground]

20 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

O's marketing team should be all over this. After every home game, the coaches and players get to physically air their grievances on the field for all to watch and enjoy.

You stealing my ideas from yesterday?  I had wrestling matches on the field. Brandon Hyde split personality wrestler. Dr Jekyll and Mr . Hyde.  Chris "Crusher" Davis. Might draw over 10,000 a game.

[Ohfan67]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think Bleier is necessarily doing that but I think over the course of a long time, analytics might show that he tends to have batters hit grounders in certain spots.  I'm not saying they definitely keep track of that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.  And I wouldn't be surprised if there are some trends that allow for positioning of infielders when he or any other pitcher is on the mound.

Think about it, a guy like Bundy is proficient at giving up homers.  We can all recognize that because it smacks us in the face.  And we know when a pitcher is a groundball pitcher.  It stands to reason that they know that a pitcher gives up more grounders, say, down the lines than up the middle or vice versa. 

I don't think Bleier is intentionally aiming grounders to specific spots but I bet that just happens naturally for him.

I'm sure the Orioles do have some of those data for Bleier and for the hitters..and I'm very confident that those are the data they use to make their shifts. I don't think it's random. I strongly suspect the Orioles are placing fielders in high probability spots for Bleier and the hitters he faces, but balls were not hit to those spots last night and, let's face it, the Orioles infield ain't exactly the best in the business. 

[glenn__davis]

4 minutes ago, LA2 said:

It's possible, on some unconscious level. How else does a pitcher with his stuff put up such good ERAs several years running?

Luck.

That may be a bit too simplified, but to me Bleier just seems like the latest in a long line of guys who mysteriously have a great year or 2 out of the bullpen but then otherwise are very undistinguished.

[LA2]

2 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Vesna Vulovic was a 23 year old flight attendant for Yugoslav Airlines who fell 33,000 feet from a plane and survived. Weird stuff happens. 

That's incredible. But do you think he could do it 111 times (the number of games Bleier appeared in during his three sub-2.00 ERA seasons in a row)?

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Luck.

That may be a bit too simplified, but to me Bleier just seems like the latest in a long line of guys who mysteriously have a great year or 2 out of the bullpen but then otherwise are very undistinguished.

I don't think you're entirely wrong.  He doesn't have swing and miss stuff which puts him at an inherent disadvantage.  Maybe he's really adept at creating weak contact but I think a lot of us have been waiting for the other shoe to drop for awhile now.