Is Sisco Toast?

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, 24fps said:

Sisco is in no longer a rookie and his MLB OPS+ is 85.  Given his minor league credentials, that's not yet a death sentence, but it's not a ringing endorsement to stay on the fast track either.  The eye test is not a ringing endorsement either.   

98 wRC+ this year, when 86 is average for a catcher.    His hitting isn’t great, and I’m concerned that he did most of his damage in the first month or two after his call-up and has hit pretty poorly since then.    Still, I’d gladly take 98 wRC+ from my catcher offensively.     It’s the defense.    

But, he’s done enough to warrant another year of development.    

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Which is where all-star catcher James McCann was when he was 24 - and actually better than McCann was at 25 - and about the same as all-star catcher JT Realmuto was at 24.  It takes more time for catchers to develop.  It's obviously too soon to talk about writing off Sisco, imo.  

Age 24 was Realmuto's first season in MLB and he put up 1.5 dWAR.

McCann got a cup of coffee at Age 24 and immediately put up 0.8 dWAR at Age 25.

Sorry, I am not seeing how these comps help Sisco's case, unless you are saying the O's should never have promoted him?

[weams]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Age 24 was Realmuto's first season in MLB and he put up 1.5 dWAR.

McCann got a cup of coffee at Age 24 and immediately put up 0.8 dWAR at Age 25.

Sorry, I am not seeing how these comps help Sisco's case, unless you are saying the O's should never have promoted him?

Let's forget all the D data. How about using Luke's method. 

 

It's 98 with a little bit of a ding for running and defense. 

[weams]

6 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Age 24 was Realmuto's first season in MLB and he put up 1.5 dWAR.

McCann got a cup of coffee at Age 24 and immediately put up 0.8 dWAR at Age 25.

 

Quote

dWAR is Baseball Reference’s “Defensive Wins Above Replacement.” It is such a convenient concept — a one-stop number that estimates how much value above replacement level a player brings with his defense — that I look at it all the time. But, like Inigo says in the movie, I don’t think it means what we think it means.

Take Keith Hernandez. Please.

Keith Hernandez was a great defensive first baseman over a long career. This is something everyone who saw him play agrees upon. We watched Hernandez all through the 1970s and 1980s as he reinvented how first baseman play the bunt. He was fantastic at every aspect of first base defense — great range, great arm, brilliant at scooping out bad throws — or anyway it certainly LOOKED that way.

Keith Hernandez’s CAREER dWAR is 0.6.

https://medium.com/joeblogs/dwar-to-end-all-wars-62f558093e02

[HowAboutThat]

6 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Which is where all-star catcher James McCann was when he was 24 - and actually better than McCann was at 25 - and about the same as all-star catcher JT Realmuto was at 24.  It takes more time for catchers to develop.  It's obviously too soon to talk about writing off Sisco, imo.  

Were they as defensively limited? Were their arms as weak and as inaccurate? Did they have a 30% K rate? Or a -8 DRS?

Im not being snarky, those are legitimate questions, because why they weren’t producing is an important consideration. We know why Sisco isn’t producing.

I've given him sincere Kudos for getting his K rate down to 30%, which is a genuine improvement, but the type of problems he has are serious and to doubt his ability to remain at catcher is no surprise.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

98 wRC+ this year, when 86 is average for a catcher.    His hitting isn’t great, and I’m concerned that he did most of his damage in the first month or two after his call-up and has hit pretty poorly since then.    Still, I’d gladly take 98 wRC+ from my catcher offensively.     It’s the defense.    

But, he’s done enough to warrant another year of development.    

I think Sisco gets tendered but his spot is not secure on the roster.   If Elias sees a cheap catcher that he thinks is better this off season Sisco could be traded or DFA'd.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, weams said:

https://medium.com/joeblogs/dwar-to-end-all-wars-62f558093e02

The eye test says Sisco is terrible too.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Age 24 was Realmuto's first season in MLB and he put up 1.5 dWAR.

McCann got a cup of coffee at Age 24 and immediately put up 0.8 dWAR at Age 25.

Sorry, I am not seeing how these comps help Sisco's case, unless you are saying the O's should never have promoted him?

The numbers I mentioned - and the numbers used by the person I replied to were WAR numbers - not dWAR.  

[Ruzious]

13 minutes ago, Philip said:

Were they as defensively limited? Were their arms as weak and as inaccurate? Did they have a 30% K rate? Or a -8 DRS?

Im not being snarky, those are legitimate questions, because why they weren’t producing is an important consideration. We know why Sisco isn’t producing.

I've given him sincere Kudos for getting his K rate down to 30%, which is a genuine improvement, but the type of problems he has are serious and to doubt his ability to remain at catcher is no surprise.

Again... …  … my post used the same criteria that the person I responded to used.  

I'm not at all interested in looking up scouting reports from 2013 in order to answer your questions.  

 

[MurphDogg]

14 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I like Wilkerson in the Flaherty role.

I would rather just sign the actual Flaherty next year for the minimum in that role. Flaherty was significantly better at AAA than Wilkerson.

[atomic]

3 hours ago, weams said:

https://medium.com/joeblogs/dwar-to-end-all-wars-62f558093e02

As I mentioned before DWAR is position adjusted so 0 DWAR for a first baseman is great. 0 DWAR from a Shortstop is terrible.  And you cant add DWAR and OWAR to get total WAR.  

[atomic]

1 hour ago, MurphDogg said:

I would rather just sign the actual Flaherty next year for the minimum in that role. Flaherty was significantly better at AAA than Wilkerson.

Difference between Flaherty and Wilkerson is Flaherty can play well defensively at some positions.

[Il BuonO]

19 minutes ago, atomic said:

Difference between Flaherty and Wilkerson is Flaherty can play well defensively at some positions.

Well, in fairness to Wilkerson he’s probably a league average defender in the IF, but we never see him there. He’s certainly not that in the OF.

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Well, in fairness to Wilkerson he’s probably a league average defender in the IF, but we never see him there. He’s certainly not that in the OF.

He might be an average 2B. He does not have the arm to play SS or 3B, IMO, which Flaherty could.

[Il BuonO]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He might be an average 2B. He does not have the arm to play SS or 3B, IMO, which Flaherty could.

No argument from me. Flaherty is much more versatile.