John Means 2019 vs. Justin Verlander 2006 ROY Season

[VaBird1]

On 9/13/2019 at 5:01 PM, DrungoHazewood said:

Bob Lemon, HOF pitcher, has a slightly higher OPS+ than Luis Aparicio and Rabbit Maranville, HOF SSs.  Aparicio and Maranville are the floor of HOF hitters with OPS+es of 82.

If Richie Martin also is an epic fielder and plus baserunner until he's about 44 he, too, could one day go to Cooperstown.  If the bat gets a little better.

That’s impossible, I was told on this board that if you are a pitcher you automatically can’t hit.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Means only played in 29 games.

i do think he should have received the MVO award this year and he deserves lots of second place votes for RoY but Alvarez has been a beast.  OPS over a thousand and a 175 OPS+.

Everything the Astros touch turns to gold.   

[DrungoHazewood]

12 hours ago, VaBird1 said:

That’s impossible, I was told on this board that if you are a pitcher you automatically can’t hit.

It's pretty much true.  The counter-example here is one all time great pitcher from more than a half-century ago who could hit as well as the worst-hitting position players in the Hall.  When an 82 OPS+ is your aspirational goal you can definitively state that pitchers can't hit.

[DrungoHazewood]

16 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Means only played in 29 games.

i do think he should have received the MVO award this year and he deserves lots of second place votes for RoY but Alvarez has been a beast.  OPS over a thousand and a 175 OPS+.

It's challenging to be a 4-win player in half a season as a DH.  He has no defensive value at all and a -7 positional adjustment and he's still, per game, as valuable as anyone in the league.

Earlier I compared him to Willie McCovey, who had a 1.082 OPS in 52 games in 1959 and won the ROY.  Alvarez has been the same player in 30 more games.

Fun to look at Alvarez' combined AAA and MLB numbers this year:  138 games, 604 PAs, 108 R, 41 doubles, 50 homers, 148 RBI, 2 steals, 87 walks, 135 Ks, .332/.427/.706, 1.134 OPS.  That's ludicrous.  That's like Jeff Bagwell the year the ball went nuts.  Who slugs .700?  36 seasons ever, and the whole list is Hall of Famers and/or dudes on oil barrels full of pure, undiluted steroids.  (Plus Long Levi Meyerle in 1871 when you could hit .492 and qualifying for the batting title only took 100 PAs.)

[DrungoHazewood]

Following on with Alvarez' performance... it's absolutely obvious that they juiced the ball in the 1993-95 era. Probably a little in '93, and full on 2019 in 1994.  From 1960-1993 no one slugged .700.  In 1994 Bagwell, Frank Thomas, and Albert Belle did, and Kevin Mitchell, Griffey, and Bonds were all over .647.

Of the top 25 slugging performances of the 1960-1995 era 10 of them were from 1993-95.  The PEDs didn't hurt, but the whole league doesn't start taking them all at once while working out like made to make them effective.

[TonySoprano]

One thing, of several, that really stands out is his numbers at Camden Yards
18G, 16 GS, 2.74 ERA, 0.978 WHIP.

At home, the entire team has an ERA of 6.02 to go with a WHIP of 1.482.   Means single-handedly lowered the team ERA by almost half a run.  Without him, the home ERA is 6.49.  Maybe somebody who is much better at research than I am can point to the last time an Orioles starter had far better numbers compared to the staff at Camden Yards.  

2015, Chen's ERA was 2.78 in 17 GS (team ERA 4.09).  2016, Gausman had an ERA of 2.67 in 12 GS (team ERA 3.81).  In 1992, Mussina had an ERA of 2.65 at home (team ERA 3.74).