Buck interviewing for Astros job

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Wasn’t Buck like the 2nd MLB manager to use the shift?

He wasn’t so “get off my lawn”. I think people read too much into his postgame interviews. At least he doesn’t just spout cliches. 

Managers have been using the shift for decades.  

[Moose Milligan]

12 hours ago, Pushmonkey said:

Remind me again why this is in the Os section not the mlb section?

Cause if you haven't noticed, the O's section isn't exactly a hot bed of news and information right now.

12 hours ago, Gatoriole said:

For the vast majority of Buck's career, he was a forward-thinking manager. Going back to the late 90s/early 00s, I believe he changed the way outfielders were positioned (harder to find something to back this up; it is based on memory). Early in his Orioles tenure, we were early adopters of the infield shift. In 2014, his use of Andrew Miller out of the bullpen changed the way teams used the bullpen in the playoffs. From 2012-2016, he utilized his bullpen better than any manager in baseball (save the '16 Wild Card game that everyone is so upset about). 

Buck is obviously an analytical thinker. His problem is that (in all likelihood) most of his information was based on his own anecdotal observations. That was good enough until the last 5-10 years as the available data became larger and larger. All of a sudden, computers could run scenarios with better information than Buck's personal experience.

We have heard that he was not receptive to data later in his Orioles tenure. But we know that we had a tiny analytics department that did not keep up with the league. We don't know whether the information that came to Buck from our analytics group as worthwhile.

This is a great post.  

Buck definitely amped up the shift game a great deal.  I'm not sure if he was the first one to increase its use in recent years but if not he was certainly one of the ones that helped it increase in popularity. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Buck definitely amped up the shift game a great deal.  I'm not sure if he was the first one to increase its use in recent years but if not he was certainly one of the ones that helped it increase in popularity. 

Not sure about that, others have been using the shift for some time.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Cause if you haven't noticed, the O's section isn't exactly a hot bed of news and information right now.

This is a great post.  

Buck definitely amped up the shift game a great deal.  I'm not sure if he was the first one to increase its use in recent years but if not he was certainly one of the ones that helped it increase in popularity. 

Tampa started it, and Buck quickly followed.    It’s common now, but we were definitely early adapters on that front.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-shift-20130615-story.html%3foutputType=amp

[Redskins Rick]

24 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Tampa started it, and Buck quickly followed.    It’s common now, but we were definitely early adapters on that front.   

I thought LaRussa restarted teams shifting again.

[jabba72]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Tampa started it, and Buck quickly followed.    It’s common now, but we were definitely early adapters on that front.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-shift-20130615-story.html%3foutputType=amp

I remember reading the O's and Tampa lead the majors in infield shifts in 2012 and a few teams wanted to ban it. I dont know if Buck was doing it earlier then that.  

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

I thought LaRussa restarted teams shifting again.

No LaRussa ruined baseball by popularizing changing relief pitchers without end.  And, ignoring steroid use that was rampant in his Oakland clubhouse.  Other than that, I really like him.

[Redskins Rick]

9 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

No LaRussa ruined baseball by popularizing changing relief pitchers without end.  And, ignoring steroid use that was rampant in his Oakland clubhouse.  Other than that, I really like him.

He ruined a few pen arms along the way, it didnt brother him to warmup a guy two or three times in the same game.

[jabba72]

20 hours ago, Gatoriole said:

For the vast majority of Buck's career, he was a forward-thinking manager. Going back to the late 90s/early 00s, I believe he changed the way outfielders were positioned (harder to find something to back this up; it is based on memory). Early in his Orioles tenure, we were early adopters of the infield shift. In 2014, his use of Andrew Miller out of the bullpen changed the way teams used the bullpen in the playoffs. From 2012-2016, he utilized his bullpen better than any manager in baseball (save the '16 Wild Card game that everyone is so upset about). 

Buck is obviously an analytical thinker. His problem is that (in all likelihood) most of his information was based on his own anecdotal observations. That was good enough until the last 5-10 years as the available data became larger and larger. All of a sudden, computers could run scenarios with better information than Buck's personal experience.

We have heard that he was not receptive to data later in his Orioles tenure. But we know that we had a tiny analytics department that did not keep up with the league. We don't know whether the information that came to Buck from our analytics group as worthwhile.

I'd like to know an example of this other than possibly deferring to Jones not playing deep in the OF.  Im not disagreeing, I just know the O's were doing aggressive shifting before it caught on the rest of the league, which suggests Buck had to accept analytics to make that decision. Chris Davis contract would be one decision if Buck was for that. That was a big one. 

[Gatoriole]

4 hours ago, jabba72 said:

I'd like to know an example of this other than possibly deferring to Jones not playing deep in the OF.  Im not disagreeing, I just know the O's were doing aggressive shifting before it caught on the rest of the league, which suggests Buck had to accept analytics to make that decision. Chris Davis contract would be one decision if Buck was for that. That was a big one. 

I think that's a really good question. As someone who is fairly pro-Buck, I am going to leave the question for people who want to criticize Buck to answer.

[interloper]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/astros-expected-to-hire-dusty-baker.html

[MurphDogg]

If it wasn't going to be Buck, I am glad it is Dusty. He is a very good manager and deserves another shot.

[TommyPickles]

Poor Buck.  So many managerial openings this winter and no one hired him.  

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, TommyPickles said:

Poor Buck.  So many managerial openings this winter and no one hired him.  

I thought most of the spots, he went after was GM slots?

 

[Moose Milligan]

Ah, I like Dusty.  I know, I know "He ruins arms!" blah blah blah.

But he's a character.  Players love him.