The "no matter what else they do" thread

[Sports Guy]

1) Do you expect the player(s) that you get back for Roberts to provide the same offensive (or defensive) output that Roberts' provides? If not, what have you gained in trading Roberts except getting younger?

Why do people keep asking this pointless question? The idea is to fill long term holes with young guys with great upside..>We need depth and talent. No, they aren't likely to match BRob production in 2009 but who cares? That isn't the purpose/ We didn't replace Bedard immediately...Do you think we should give those 5 players back?

Besides, you make up for the loss of BRob in other areas.

3) Keep Mora as he can 'fill in' until Snyder/Rowell/Kolodny arrive; have Ramon as the DH/backup catcher (if his ego will let him) if you trade Huff. If Huff isn't traded, Ramon and Weiters can share the job until the trade deadline and then trade/dump Ramon.

None of those guys are remotely close to helping us on the big league and may never help us.

If you trade Huff and get a SS, how do you replace the offense that you lose in trading Huff and Roberts? I don't see how trading these two is an upgrade other than getting younger and filling the SS hole.

Again, you are missing the point...Besides, I still want to sign Tex.

6) OK, but why would they want to come here?

Money...Promotion.

[LookinUp]

Yes we do but more than Tex?

Yes, more than Tex.

I think people get it but the concern is the risk it entails and the amount of quality pitching the O's need to truly compete.

It's precisely because we need so much pitching that I support doing something there this offseason before anything else. No matter how much our guys develop, I don't think we can count on them to fill out our staff.

[mweb]

Eckstein is terrible? Do you mean that in a good way or a bad way? To me, other then poor XBase ability, the only thing terrible I see is how terribly ordinary he is.

I guess he's terrible the same way Marquis is. In other words, he's pretty close to average at his position, but is older, doesn't do much that excites anyone, and isn't a good option for us.

He's not terrible, but I would say he's somewhat undesirable, although, we'd be quite a bit better with him as our everyday SS right now.

[El Gordo]

The point is that they didn't increase their offer to Vlad because of Gibbons...3 years later Gibbons was out of baseball and Vlad is still Vlad.

The good years from Huff and Mora in 2008 don't make up for the fact that we need a whole new IF to go along with Jones, Wieters, Markakis, Reimold/Scott in 2010...Tex can be the 1B for the next 5-6 years, during which we should be able to contend in 4 of them.

How are we contending with jsut a 1B and no one at 2B, SS AND 3B? Tex is fine but I would rather trade for 2 IF than just sign him.

[El Gordo]

I guess he's terrible the same way Marquis is. In other words, he's pretty close to average at his position, but is older, doesn't do much that excites anyone, and isn't a good option for us.

He's not terrible, but I would say he's somewhat undesirable, although, we'd be quite a bit better with him as our everyday SS right now.

Eckstein is a poor fielding SS. He was ranked 28 last year at a -14 and is currently 27 at a -11.

[mweb]

Eckstein is a poor fielding SS. He was ranked 28 last year at a -14 and is currently 27 at a -11.

And we'd still be better off with him.

[Sports Guy]

And we'd still be better off with him.

And he is still a terrible option.

[mweb]

And he is still a terrible option.

Terrible option and terrible player are two different things.

[Sports Guy]

Terrible option and terrible player are two different things.

No power, below average defensively...OBP has been largely BA dependant and that could be trouble as he gets into his mid 30s.

Terrible player and option right now....Wouldn't want him for a 1/500K deal.

[El Gordo]

Well the plan is to fill out that infield before 2010. Trade BROB and get maybe a 2B and SS back. Maybe extend BROB and trade Huff for a 3B prospect.

Basically with what you are arguing you are pretty much saying that we won't contend at any time over the 6 or 7 years that Tex would be here. Is that what you think?

I don't no where you get that.:rolleyestf: I agree that the IF is a priority. I don't think there is much of a chance to sign Tex. I also think it is highly improbable that you will get both a SS and a 2B for BRob. You might get a 3B for Huff but remember both Huff and Roberts are 1 year rentals so the teams that will give up much for them are few. Realistically we are more than likely going to have to go with a stop gap solution at at least 1 and probably 2 of the IF positions over the next few years. Unless we are wiling to trade SP talent, and I am not willing to do that yet. Maybe in a year or two depending on how they pan out.

[mweb]

No power, below average defensively...OBP has been largely BA dependant and that could be trouble as he gets into his mid 30s.

Terrible player and option right now....Wouldn't want him for a 1/500K deal.

Career AVG: .285, career OBP: .351. This year: .273, .352. Don't see how that's largely BA dependent.

I guess there's no point debating this with someone whose definition of terrible seems to be different than the dictionary's.

[ejf1025]

Why do people keep asking this pointless question? The idea is to fill long term holes with young guys with great upside..>We need depth and talent. No, they aren't likely to match BRob production in 2009 but who cares? That isn't the purpose/ We didn't replace Bedard immediately...Do you think we should give those 5 players back?

Besides, you make up for the loss of BRob in other areas.

None of those guys are remotely close to helping us on the big league and may never help us.

Again, you are missing the point...Besides, I still want to sign Tex.

Money...Promotion.

Do you think Roberts gets a Bedard haul?

I think the chances are just as probable that Roberts production over the next 3-4 years (with extension) will be as good or better than any package we'd get back.

Frankly, everything hinges on Tex. If he signs, I don't really see the purpose of trading Roberts (maybe even Huff).

[Sports Guy]

Career AVG: .285, career OBP: .351. This year: .273, .352. Don't see how that's largely BA dependent.

I guess there's no point debating this with someone whose definition of terrible seems to be different than the dictionary's.

LOL...Guess it is pointless to argue with someone who brings up the stats of a guy going into his mid 30s...How many at bats does Eck have in his mid 30s?

His walk rate isn't that good as of late although he gets HBP a lot, helping that OBP...Can't say I want to rely on that going forward.

[Sports Guy]

Do you think Roberts gets a Bedard haul?

I think the chances are just as probable that Roberts production over the next 3-4 years (with extension) will be as good or better than any package we'd get back.

Frankly, everything hinges on Tex. If he signs, I don't really see the purpose of trading Roberts (maybe even Huff).

BRob should be dealt regardless if we get Tex or not.

I think BRob can net 1-2 players that are more value than the Cubs package we were offered last year...I don't think we can get 4 or 5 players for him but BRob for Kemp wouldn't surprise me...Or something like that.

[mweb]

About the same position as we are now, given the crappy pitching we have had since then. A single position player no matter how great simply doesn't make up for that.

Yeah, it's highly doubtful we would have made the playoffs anyway. Plus, it wasn't the O's fault that Vlad flat out did not want to play in Baltimore.