Owners submit new economic plan to union : UPDATED

[DrungoHazewood]

35 minutes ago, Fan4Life said:

This is where I'm at and always have been. I'll never feel good about paying a player $30m a year in any sport no matter what the sport's revenues are.

I feel a lot better about $100M going to player salaries than most of that going right back to a group of multi-millionaire and billionaire investors.

[Redskins Rick]

12 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

In a normal year they devote just over 40% of their revenues to player payroll.  In the last 20 years there have been years where it has been closer to 50%.

You know, Ive seen the figures many times over, revenues and player expenses listed on pages like Forbes, but never thought to do the math.

Thanks

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I feel a lot better about $100M going to player salaries than most of that going right back to a group of multi-millionaire and billionaire investors.

I feel the same way about Hollywood celebrities.

If you pay your main star of the money 25 Million, that cost gets pass down to the ticket holders at the theaters.

Why, so he can buy another house or car that he probably wouldnt use?

I cant remember which actor, maybe Mel Gibson, but he unloaded a bulk of all his properties here and there. He said, he was paying staff to take care of places, he hadnt even brother to visit and have vehicles there for him to drive, yet, he hadnt even bothered to use them.

[DrungoHazewood]

10 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

This is 100% true. The excitement of the home run has been marginalized because of how many are being hit.

It also makes stars less important.  Hack Wilson had 191 RBIs that one season because the Cubs only had two guys with more than 15 homers.  Gabby Hartnett had 37, Wilson 56, everyone else just tried to get on base so the two sluggers could knock them in.   Which also meant pitchers could pitch longer, they could pace and save their best stuff for Wilson and Hartnett because there wasn't a threat of a homer with every single batter.

Now if Mike Trout doesn't hit a homer, whatever, the next guy will.  And every pitcher has to throw max effort every at bat.

[MongoBoy]

14 hours ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

I was on a tennis forum and they put up old matches from the past, like borg-McEnroe in the 80s or Ashe-Connors in 75 Wimbledon final.  Seeing no time wasted between points played , such as no towel to wipe face after every point, was so refreshing as compared to the current tennis with all the delay between points.  Baseball is just the same, games in the 70s and earlier were much more enjoyable due to the lack of time wasting between pitches.  People under 40 will never go back to baseball unless something is drastically done to fix the ‘slowness’ 

I used to love watching tennis.  Can't do it now, tho.  I'm really fed up with a constant barrage of fist pumps and screams, even after a double fault.  Same goes for golf.  Even in baseball.  Someone gets on base (point to the dugout).  They have to do something (ie shooting an arrow) for the camera.  And please, don't even bring up endzone dances.

[MongoBoy]

14 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

And commercials. Noticed they really didn't cut down the in between inning times because that's where their commercials come into play. I'd rather see more in game sponsored stuff then the same 10 commercials that I can quote word for word by May every year on MASN. 

Mostly the game has changed because the strike zones got smaller, guys starter going deeper into counts for the most part, and of course the fact that guys are now all trying to hit home runs which means more strikeouts. Also teams like the Yankees and Red Sox that have lots of guys who will just foul pitch after pitch off until they get a mistake they can mash.

I kinda toyed with the idea of starting the count at 1-1 and once you get to two strikes, you get two fouls, on the third you are out. This would encourage batters to put the ball in play more.

Ever torture yourself by listening to a Stankee game?  Just about every pitch is sponsored by some business.

[Redskins Rick]

18 minutes ago, MongoBoy said:

I used to love watching tennis.  Can't do it now, tho.  I'm really fed up with a constant barrage of fist pumps and screams, even after a double fault.  Same goes for golf.  Even in baseball.  Someone gets on base (point to the dugout).  They have to do something (ie shooting an arrow) for the camera.  And please, don't even bring up endzone dances.

Watching female swim drivers, coming out of the dive pool is pretty fun.

[DrungoHazewood]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

In baseball's defense that does happen in the NBA and to a lesser extent the NFL.  In fact I'd say the NBA invented it.

Seems that the NFL had the first ever draft in 1935.  Then the NBA started theirs in the 1940s.  The only reason teams tank is to get better draft picks.  You could win more games with cheaper players if the rules were set up right (like changing free agency and service time), but the draft really drives the tanking.

So get rid of the draft. Cap individual team expenses, but all amateur and foreign free agents are free to sign with anyone.  You could even have a sliding cap where the smaller market teams get to spend way more on bonuses.  The Yanks get to spend $1M total on all amateur signings, the Orioles $15M.  Couple that with a rule that says all players become free agents at 28, no matter when they debut or how long they spend in the majors.

I think almost immediately tanking gets minimized.  Most prospects come up much earlier.  Peace, joy, happiness.

[Redskins Rick]

7 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Seems that the NFL had the first ever draft in 1935.  Then the NBA started theirs in the 1940s.  The only reason teams tank is to get better draft picks.  You could win more games with cheaper players if the rules were set up right (like changing free agency and service time), but the draft really drives the tanking.

So get rid of the draft. Cap individual team expenses, but all amateur and foreign free agents are free to sign with anyone.  You could even have a sliding cap where the smaller market teams get to spend way more on bonuses.  The Yanks get to spend $1M total on all amateur signings, the Orioles $15M.  Couple that with a rule that says all players become free agents at 28, no matter when they debut or how long they spend in the majors.

I think almost immediately tanking gets minimized.  Most prospects come up much earlier.  Peace, joy, happiness.

The NBA and their brillant ping pong ball draft selection order, works wonders. [sarcasm alert]

[DrungoHazewood]

26 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

The NBA and their brillant ping pong ball draft selection order, works wonders. [sarcasm alert]

It was a half measure, and I'm guessing there is some impact.  But I think organizations will often implement a compromise solution to a problem, consider the matter closed, and move on.  Continual feedback and course adjustments are really hard in large organizations. 

As a baseball fan I wouldn't be too satisfied with our solutions compared to the NBA.  The MLB draft's only real changes in the last 55 years have been spending caps.  Baseball's basic mode of operation is why fix anything when nothing is broken?

[Tony-OH]

14 hours ago, Philip said:

Tony, I love you man, but I gotta push back. Using the pitchers wisely is strategy. If a pitcher can’t run the bases, ummm that’s a problem, but even if he can’t, that’s part of the strategy. I don’t hate the DH, but I do love the differences in approach between the two leagues and would hate to lose it.

im glad you see the larger point, though. We can argue about the DH, and that’s fine, but if the goal is to increase interest, nothing that Manfred is doing so far is helping to accomplish that goal. 

I don't disagree with that at all. It just hate non-DH baseball at the professional level. I hate watching an automatic out bat and destroy a good rally. I'd rather watch nine actual hitters bat. 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

15 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't disagree with that at all. It just hate non-DH baseball at the professional level. I hate watching an automatic out bat and destroy a good rally. I'd rather watch nine actual hitters bat.

Walking the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher would be like an NBA team telling Shack he can't shoot these free throws, instead we get to pick someone from the stands.

[Bahama O's Fan]

Here's an unrealistic way to stop tanking. The last place team every year gets bumped down to playing AAA next season. The AAA champion moves up to MLB and takes their place. 

[murph]

48 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't disagree with that at all. It just hate non-DH baseball at the professional level. I hate watching an automatic out bat and destroy a good rally. I'd rather watch nine actual hitters bat. 

 

Agree completely and not worry about a Dylan Bundy hurting himself running the bases.  I cringe every time one of the O's pitchers would get a hit or a walk. 

[Dipper9]

18 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that if the players don't decide to play in 2020 that it pretty much guarantee a work stoppage after the 2021 season.  I think that no baseball in 2020 combined with a stoppage in 2022 will do a huge amount of damage to a sport that has been raking in the money.

If this happens, I would think the "new MLB" will be a younger league with less guaranteed money contracts and the end of superstars with 100, 200, 300 million dollar deals.  We're already seeing players like Adam Jones unable to get a decent contract in the league, and a work stoppage would allow the owners to blow up the league and adopt an entirely new pay scale.