Orioles make an offer to Yasiel Puig. UPDATE: Puig to sign with Braves Tests POSITIVE for COVID 19

[Aristotelian]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That was for a full season, not 60 games.  Also Puig isn't a need like a SS was.

Who cares how many games we play this year. We would get control over a higher quality player for the same money. It's a great opportunity. OF is most definitely a need as long as Dwight Smith Jr. is on the roster. 

[VaBird1]

28 minutes ago, weams said:

						Exit Velocity (MPH)				Distance (ft)			Hard Hit		Barrels
Rk.	Player	Team	BBE	LA (°)	SwSp%	Max	Avg	FB/LD	GB	Max	Avg	Avg HR	95 MPH+	%	#	Brls/BBE %	Brls/PA %
1	Judge, Aaron		238	11.4	39.9	118.1	95.9	99.5	91.7	467	199	396	136	57.1	48	20.2	10.7
2	Sano, Miguel		222	15.9	36.0	114.2	94.4	99.6	89.0	482	206	415	127	57.2	47	21.2	10.7
3	Cruz, Nelson		326	13.1	38.3	117.0	93.7	99.2	89.0	473	197	411	168	51.5	65	19.9	12.5
4	Reyes, Franmil		345	9.5	33.3	115.0	93.3	98.2	88.6	457	181	408	176	51.0	51	14.8	9.3
5	Yelich, Christian		374	11.2	33.2	117.9	93.1	96.7	90.6	462	184	407	182	49.1	59	15.8	10.2
6	Donaldson, Josh		396	13.3	33.3	114.2	92.9	98.1	89.0	443	184	406	198	50.0	62	15.7	9.4
7	Ohtani, Shohei		278	6.8	31.7	115.1	92.8	97.0	89.0	447	163	406	131	47.1	34	12.2	8.0
8	Moncada, Yoan		361	12.0	40.4	115.8	92.8	95.5	91.2	462	185	406	173	47.9	44	12.2	7.9
9	Schwarber, Kyle		379	15.0	35.6	117.6	92.7	97.9	88.5	473	197	406	193	51.2	55	14.5	9.0
10	Soler, Jorge		415	15.4	34.7	115.7	92.6	97.2	88.8	465	199	414	207	49.9	70	16.9	10.3
11	Chapman, Matt		439	16.3	25.5	114.4	92.6	97.1	90.8	453	185	408	210	48.7	54	12.3	8.1
12	Bell, Josh		416	13.0	34.9	116.2	92.3	96.1	89.8	474	186	411	193	47.1	53	12.7	8.6
13	Alvarez, Yordan		221	13.4	39.8	117.9	92.2	96.6	86.6	474	202	411	107	48.9	38	17.2	10.3
14	Abreu, Jose		492	10.9	35.2	117.9	92.1	96.1	89.7	462	168	405	237	48.2	63	12.8	9.1
15	Devers, Rafael		531	10.3	33.1	115.0	92.1	96.3	89.3	458	176	403	252	47.5	48	9.0	6.8
16	Olson, Matt		346	18.3	36.4	111.9	91.9	97.1	87.0	450	203	400	170	50.3	50	14.5	9.1
17	Ozuna, Marcell		372	13.5	33.6	115.3	91.8	96.3	88.5	455	179	403	179	49.2	47	12.6	8.6
18	Santana, Carlos		467	11.8	29.1	112.8	91.8	93.5	91.9	426	171	396	209	44.9	45	9.6	6.6
19	Diaz, Yandy		250	5.7	34.0	114.3	91.7	97.0	89.2	428	162	389	112	44.8	26	10.4	7.5
20	LeMahieu, DJ		517	6.7	36.6	111.1	91.7	95.2	89.3	446	160	386	243	47.2	39	7.5	6.0
21	Kendrick, Howie		290	11.0	36.9	112.4	91.6	94.4	90.4	435	175	411	140	48.3	33	11.4	8.9
22	Hiura, Keston		208	16.0	38.0	112.4	91.4	95.1	88.6	442	191	402	100	50.0	29	13.9	8.3
23	Davis, J.D.		315	10.6	37.1	114.7	91.4	95.0	88.7	449	171	404	148	47.7	36	11.4	7.9
24	McMahon, Ryan		322	8.4	36.6	112.9	91.4	95.8	88.2	479	166	415	153	47.7	29	9.0	5.4
25	Santana, Danny		328	13.5	37.8	113.1	91.4	94.7	88.2	448	191	406	143	43.6	31	9.5	6.1
26	Harper, Bryce		399	13.1	37.6	116.4	91.3	96.9	84.9	466	196	411	182	45.6	59	14.8	8.7
27	Choo, Shin-Soo		399	8.7	32.1	111.8	91.3	96.7	87.5	461	161	410	195	49.0	35	8.8	5.3
28	Soto, Juan		416	12.0	36.3	112.8	91.3	97.0	85.1	443	191	403	199	47.8	51	12.3	7.7
29	Martinez, J.D.		442	12.5	41.9	112.6	91.3	95.0	87.6	434	191	402	206	46.7	53	12.0	8.1
30	Jimenez, Eloy		336	9.3	32.4	114.1	91.2	96.6	87.4	471	167	409	161	47.9	43	12.8	8.5
31	Braun, Ryan		357	7.1	33.6	111.7	91.2	95.6	88.9	443	163	404	159	45.0	35	9.8	6.9
32	Markakis, Nick		361	7.3	34.1	114.7	91.2	92.5	91.0	418	157	392	160	44.3	11	3.0	2.3
33	Machado, Manny		462	13.0	31.2	112.6	91.2	94.5	91.6	455	178	400	202	43.7	37	8.0	5.6
34	Garver, Mitch		226	15.3	33.6	109.7	91.1	97.2	84.8	443	199	400	113	50.0	35	15.5	9.7
35	Hernandez, Teoscar		265	15.5	30.6	112.1	91.1	96.2	86.6	450	191	401	112	42.3	31	11.7	6.7
36	Choi, Ji-Man		309	12.6	37.9	110.1	91.1	94.7	87.5	445	186	400	131	42.4	35	11.3	7.2
37	Walker, Christian		375	14.8	34.1	112.4	91.1	95.2	88.0	447	181	411	181	48.4	49	13.1	8.1
38	Dozier, Hunter		380	16.7	35.8	115.1	91.1	94.2	89.2	453	201	401	162	42.6	38	10.0	6.5
39	Sanchez, Gary		272	19.1	33.8	118.3	91.0	95.9	86.1	481	208	417	112	41.2	52	19.1	11.7
40	Cron, C.J.		353	12.7	34.3	115.9	91.0	96.1	87.6	453	186	404	156	44.6	53	15.0	10.6
41	Baez, Javier		377	7.6	36.3	114.1	91.0	96.1	86.5	460	172	404	163	43.6	48	12.7	8.6
42	Betts, Mookie		505	19.1	39.4	109.3	91.0	94.2	88.0	438	206	391	235	46.6	52	10.3	7.4
43	Pederson, Joc		341	15.3	31.7	113.7	90.9	96.0	87.7	454	179	399	146	43.5	35	10.3	6.8
44	Story, Trevor		417	17.3	36.5	111.8	90.9	93.8	90.0	459	197	414	191	45.8	36	8.6	5.5
45	Alfaro, Jorge		279	4.7	33.3	114.7	90.8	96.4	86.6	473	154	404	125	44.8	32	11.5	6.9
46	Cano, Robinson		324	7.3	33.6	112.1	90.8	93.2	89.9	429	161	401	149	46.0	24	7.4	5.7
47	Pham, Tommy		445	5.1	29.7	113.3	90.8	95.3	88.2	458	149	406	199	44.8	35	7.9	5.4
48	Tellez, Rowdy		257	14.0	37.0	115.2	90.7	94.5	87.2	455	191	406	107	41.8	34	13.2	8.3
49	Thames, Eric		258	18.6	36.4	110.5	90.7	93.4	87.2	432	209	396	110	43.8	24	9.3	5.2
50	Trout, Mike		354	22.2	44.1	116.6	90.7	94.9	84.2	473	233	419	154	44.3	66	18.6	11.0
51	Bellinger, Cody		455	17.6	40.0	110.6	90.7	95.0	85.4	442	207	405	205	45.5	59	13.0	8.9
52	Desmond, Ian		327	8.4	32.4	113.6	90.6	93.6	89.4	486	164	425	138	42.2	34	10.4	7.1
53	Alonso, Pete		417	14.8	37.4	118.3	90.6	96.5	85.9	474	189	414	174	42.3	66	15.8	9.5
54	Acuna Jr., Ronald		439	14.2	40.5	115.9	90.6	95.6	84.8	466	191	418	206	46.9	66	15.0	9.2
55	Bogaerts, Xander		498	13.1	35.3	112.4	90.6	94.0	88.5	451	183	398	217	43.7	43	8.6	6.2
56	Lindor, Francisco		507	11.9	29.8	113.5	90.6	93.7	89.5	437	174	397	205	40.6	38	7.5	5.8
57	O'Hearn, Ryan		231	13.0	29.9	111.2	90.5	95.8	88.1	440	175	403	101	43.7	21	9.1	5.7
58	Pollock, A.J.		238	13.9	29.8	108.1	90.5	93.8	88.9	429	173	398	95	39.9	19	8.0	5.6
59	Pinder, Chad		257	8.8	32.7	110.0	90.5	95.8	87.4	437	168	405	108	43.5	21	8.2	5.7
60	Urshela, Gio		359	13.6	37.6	113.3	90.5	94.1	87.7	461	185	407	145	40.6	25	7.0	5.3
61	Hosmer, Eric		461	2.1	29.1	114.3	90.5	94.1	88.6	431	137	402	212	46.0	33	7.2	4.9
62	Gonzalez, Marwin		328	10.6	35.4	109.2	90.4	94.5	87.3	437	172	403	143	43.7	21	6.4	4.5
63	Meadows, Austin		399	16.7	38.1	115.4	90.4	94.7	85.8	447	205	399	171	42.9	50	12.5	8.5
64	Rendon, Anthony		468	19.5	38.7	107.7	90.4	93.5	88.3	431	208	398	218	46.6	56	12.0	8.7
65	Smoak, Justin		309	16.8	37.5	110.8	90.3	93.7	87.4	438	205	401	122	39.5	34	11.0	6.8
66	Grandal, Yasmani		379	13.9	37.7	111.3	90.3	94.9	86.6	442	187	400	156	41.8	43	11.3	6.8
67	Cabrera, Miguel		390	12.2	38.5	111.4	90.3	92.4	89.1	453	172	396	173	44.6	25	6.4	4.6
68	Turner, Trea		410	9.7	29.8	113.5	90.3	93.1	89.5	453	158	408	170	41.5	28	6.8	4.9
69	Realmuto, J.T.		423	14.4	35.0	112.9	90.3	94.4	87.7	456	186	393	173	40.9	37	8.7	6.2
70	Mancini, Trey		464	7.8	36.4	113.9	90.3	95.8	85.7	438	172	404	198	42.7	48	10.3	7.1
71	Gurriel Jr., Lourdes		232	14.1	33.6	109.6	90.2	95.6	86.4	452	188	409	104	44.8	26	11.2	7.6
72	Turner, Justin		396	17.6	38.9	107.7	90.2	93.1	87.7	433	202	401	168	43.0	31	7.8	5.6
73	Peralta, David		296	6.4	29.1	113.2	90.1	94.5	88.0	448	149	409	121	40.9	16	5.4	3.8
74	Davis, Khris		337	13.2	32.0	109.9	90.1	95.2	85.4	432	183	396	132	40.2	34	10.1	6.4
75	Goldschmidt, Paul		434	15.3	36.6	111.5	90.1	94.5	86.2	464	198	411	182	42.4	49	11.3	7.2
76	d'Arnaud, Travis		272	14.6	33.8	113.1	90.0	93.6	87.6	453	180	405	108	39.7	21	7.7	5.4
77	Encarnacion, Edwin		318	22.5	34.6	113.0	90.0	94.4	87.4	442	204	401	131	42.0	40	12.6	8.2
78	Ramos, Wilson		407	0.0	26.0	111.0	90.0	93.7	88.8	427	119	390	171	42.2	19	4.7	3.6
79	Renfroe, Hunter		292	19.1	32.2	114.1	89.9	94.6	85.9	470	199	413	115	39.4	35	12.0	7.1
80	McCann, James		303	10.7	36.0	112.0	89.9	94.3	86.6	446	163	404	131	43.5	28	9.2	5.9
81	Anderson, Brian		348	11.1	31.3	114.4	89.9	94.6	86.7	446	172	397	159	45.7	31	8.9	6.0
82	Nunez, Renato		402	20.0	32.1	114.8	89.9	94.0	88.2	450	194	413	163	40.6	43	10.7	7.2
83	Puig, Yasiel		426	14.2	31.2	114.4	89.9	94.1	88.0	455	182	410	162	39.1	41	9.6	6.7
84	Swanson, Dansby		365	14.2	36.7	108.4	89.8	93.1	86.6	424	186	402	152	41.6	37	10.1	6.8
85	Springer, George		370	10.3	33.0	114.3	89.8	95.3	85.6	467	177	408	160	44.8	53	14.3	9.5
86	Marte, Ketel		485	11.5	34.6	116.3	89.8	93.5	87.3	482	174	407	194	40.0	45	9.3	7.2
87	Bote, David		212	7.7	34.9	113.8	89.7	93.1	87.8	469	162	404	77	36.3	12	5.7	3.4
88	Voit, Luke		288	12.8	39.9	112.6	89.7	95.4	82.6	470	184	410	116	40.4	38	13.2	7.5
89	Muncy, Max		342	14.2	39.8	110.1	89.7	94.4	84.3	464	195	404	147	43.4	42	12.3	7.1
90	Bradley Jr., Jackie		344	8.7	31.1	112.1	89.7	95.0	86.2	478	164	395	148	43.0	34	9.9	6.0
91	Longoria, Evan		346	14.0	35.8	110.3	89.7	93.2	86.8	438	184	406	141	40.8	26	7.5	5.1
92	Hoskins, Rhys		403	24.0	31.0	111.0	89.7	94.0	86.3	429	209	388	156	38.7	39	9.7	5.5
93	Kepler, Max		429	18.2	31.0	112.5	89.7	92.9	88.8	438	194	392	177	41.7	38	8.9	6.4
94	Freeman, Freddie		472	14.5	40.3	112.0	89.7	93.9	85.1	446	192	404	199	42.3	59	12.5	8.5
95	Tatis Jr., Fernando		227	6.9	33.5	115.9	89.6	95.8	84.3	468	164	405	100	44.1	30	13.2	8.1

There’s a problem with this chart, I can’t find a single Orioles until #70

[scOtt]

5 hours ago, ScGO's said:

The one's that say he's averaged only 1.86 WAR since 2015, after he busted onto the scene in 2013-2014.  And that includes a 3.4 WAR 2017.  His dWAR has also been in the negatives the last two seasons. Only a .330 OBP and .792 OPS since the end of 2014 as well, so not much of an on base guy, nor an elite power hitter.  Not bad, but I just don't think he's worth spending money on in a rebuild.  There's been reports too that he's a hot head and not the best teammate

That's what worries me.

[Beef Supreme]

1 hour ago, VaBird1 said:

There’s a problem with this chart, I can’t find a single Orioles until #70

I was surprised to see Nick Markakis and Manny Machado tied at an average of 91.2 mph, ranked #32 and #33, overall.

Shocked to see Mike Trout down at #50. Guess he has some extra special voodoo in his bat.

[VaBird1]

2 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

I was surprised to see Nick Markakis and Manny Machado tied at an average of 91.2 mph, ranked #32 and #33, overall.

Shocked to see Mike Trout down at #50. Guess he has some extra special voodoo in his bat.

Those three caught my attention too

[backwardsk]

I’d love for them to get Puig.

[hoosiers]

IMO, the downside aspects of signing Puig are spending $ unnecessarily (if the move doesn't pan out at all), denying ABs to OF prospects and finishing a spot or two ahead of where we would be without Puig and drafting lower as a result.  That's about it for me on the downside.

The positive aspects IMO far outweigh those negatives.  Puig could catch fire and net a good amount in trade and he may stop the Os from putting someone in the OF who would appear to be completely overmatched (McKenna).  Puig may find the low-key nature of Bmore to be a great environment for him to succeed.  Puig is a legit major league bat who provides insurance in case Santander (or other) doesn't come back.  Puig may be somewhat of a warning to guys like McKenna to pick it up or we can drop many of the OF wannabes on our 40 man.

I hope Puig is one plus an option.  Teams may offer more in the offseason in trade and our OF situation is not going to improve dramatically between now and by the end of the shortened season.  

Count me in on Puig esp if it is a one plus option or a two year deal.

[waroriole]

On 7/11/2020 at 3:37 PM, Philip said:

Well in addition to the Smith-level guys Stewart, Mountcastle, McKenna( isn’t he close enough?) Mullins, and I’m drawing a blank after them, but that’s enough. We got 2 and one spot remaining for a corner and a backup. I have reservations about both MC and Stewart, but what better time to throw them into the fray than right now?

Puig won’t bring anything, and will take playing time away from guys who might be part of the future.

its much better to treat this season like an extended spring, and see what our guys can do.

Other than Mountcastle, none of those guys are major leaguers. And he can play a lot of 1B/DH. 

[Philip]

24 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Other than Mountcastle, none of those guys are major leaguers. And he can play a lot of 1B/DH. 

I don’t disagree, but we have them, and no reason not give them some cuts and see if they can produce. I don’t have much enthusiasm for most of these guys( including MC, actually) but we have them, so why not let them play instead of signing Puig to no purpose?

he wouldn’t make a meaningful difference in w-l, he won’t become a desirable trade chip, and he will take playing time away from guys who need it, especially because there will be no minor league season. It’s The Show or nothing

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, hoosiers said:

IMO, the downside aspects of signing Puig are spending $ unnecessarily (if the move doesn't pan out at all), denying ABs to OF prospects and finishing a spot or two ahead of where we would be without Puig and drafting lower as a result.  That's about it for me on the downside.

The positive aspects IMO far outweigh those negatives.  Puig could catch fire and net a good amount in trade and he may stop the Os from putting someone in the OF who would appear to be completely overmatched (McKenna).  Puig may find the low-key nature of Bmore to be a great environment for him to succeed.  Puig is a legit major league bat who provides insurance in case Santander (or other) doesn't come back.  Puig may be somewhat of a warning to guys like McKenna to pick it up or we can drop many of the OF wannabes on our 40 man.

I hope Puig is one plus an option.  Teams may offer more in the offseason in trade and our OF situation is not going to improve dramatically between now and by the end of the shortened season.  

Count me in on Puig esp if it is a one plus option or a two year deal.

Good take. This is my opinion as well.

[Beef Supreme]

14 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Signing @atomic would have been a better signing than Colby Rasmus.

Jesus H! I can't imagine what that clubhouse would be like.

[Beef Supreme]

On 7/11/2020 at 4:42 PM, Can_of_corn said:

If no one can predict the "probable market" then it probably isn't a good idea to spend money based on getting "something of value" from that market.

Sounds like a poor risk.

If the reason the Orioles sign Puig is based solely on return via trade, then it is very risky, for sure. But no one can declare that the unknown is a "poor risk." There were unknowns when we went to the Moon, but that didn't mean that trying to go was "probably (not) a good idea" and "a poor risk." I'm not saying that it is probable that Puig would return value beyond the salary the Orioles pay him. But since we can't guess at the variables, we can't confidently project the risk probabilities. The only variable that we can predict with confidence is that more players will see their seasons come to an end because of Covid-19 this season than last season. And that variable may increase teams' desperation to acquire talent through trades.

Besides whatever possible trade value there may be, there could be other motivations to sign Puig. Engaging the fans with a star may have value. Fans were excited when the Orioles signed Vlad, even though he was over-the-hill by that time. Tony Clark was buzzing last year about the Orioles constructing a lineup in bad faith; maybe they aim to hush him up with this signing and Iglesia's. Or maybe it's just an advertisement to current Cuban players: "Hey, we're the Orioles, if you haven't heard of us. We got Puig. You might like to join our team some day." Might be worth every penny right there.

[Hallas]

3 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

If the reason the Orioles sign Puig is based solely on return via trade, then it is very risky, for sure. But no one can declare that the unknown is a "poor risk." There were unknowns when we went to the Moon, but that didn't mean that trying to go was "probably (not) a good idea" and "a poor risk." I'm not saying that it is probable that Puig would return value beyond the salary the Orioles pay him. But since we can't guess at the variables, we can't confidently project the risk probabilities. The only variable that we can predict with confidence is that more players will see their seasons come to an end because of Covid-19 this season than last season. And that variable may increase teams' desperation to acquire talent through trades.

Besides whatever possible trade value there may be, there could be other motivations to sign Puig. Engaging the fans with a star may have value. Fans were excited when the Orioles signed Vlad, even though he was over-the-hill by that time. Tony Clark was buzzing last year about the Orioles constructing a lineup in bad faith; maybe they aim to hush him up with this signing and Iglesia's. Or maybe it's just an advertisement to current Cuban players: "Hey, we're the Orioles, if you haven't heard of us. We got Puig. You might like to join our team some day." Might be worth every penny right there.

I'm not going to address unknowns due to the season getting cancelled, although that is a serious possibility, because accounting for that pushes you toward nihilistic decisions that I don't think are optimal if you're trying to build a sustainably winning organization.  However, any concerns about his trade value at the deadline are almost 100% mitigated by the fact that his pro-rata salary is only $4 million.  During a normal year he easily snags a 45 FV prospect if he performs.  If it's a normal year then you 100% make out like a bandit.  But even if it's not a normal year, you'd have to trade him for a complete non-prospect for it not to be worth it.  A 40+ FV prospect who ends up being a utility man will easily cover the $4 million price tag.  Ryan Friggin Flaherty was worth 13 million for us, while getting paid only 5.9 million in salary.  It shouldn't be terribly difficult to find a low prospect that ends up being Ryan Flaherty.

[OriolesMagic83]

10 hours ago, VaBird1 said:

There’s a problem with this chart, I can’t find a single Orioles until #70

Maybe the O's are part of the Wee Willie Keeler school of batting.  Hit 'em where they ain't.  Still working on the "where they ain't" part.

[Ruzious]

8 hours ago, waroriole said:

Other than Mountcastle, none of those guys are major leaguers. And he can play a lot of 1B/DH. 

Yeah, there's 5 positions - with 3 OFers, 1st base, and DH.  There's NOBODY that would be blocked by Puig.