Why would a team with the resources to build a core through FA not do so?

[osfan83]

There is no doubt this team could spend more now that the DC situation is over and done with and MASN is in place. If the O's really wanted Tex, they could have him.

But let's remember, spending blind money is what got this org in the position its now in. You lose draft picks and generally pay for a player's past accomplishments.

I am all for the theory of building a solid core of players and then filling in the holes with FA's. But we have about 1/3 of the core we need to be able to make the jump. Spending big this offseason would probably hurt this team more than it would help it.

Problem is, by the time you get the next 1/3 in place, the first 1/3 will be gone.

[wickedwitch]

Look at the Red Sox as an example. Obviously they have FAs too, but they have chosen to mainly build from within. It's the best way to get depth, and it's cheaper, so they can save their budget for only the special FA they really want.

[allstar1579]

So what is your point? Dont try to make the team better because you might fail?

Id rather add even ONE top player each offseason for 3 years while developing from within than add 3 mediocre stopgaps.

Id rather have the good players here when the young talent arrives. Maybe we dont fill every hole in one offseason, but Id prefer 1 great player per offseason than 3 guys that will never help win a championship. Those guys can be overpaid as well, the difference is, no one wants them when you do find a better option.

If you want to know my point, go back and read the discussion from the beginning, it's pretty clear, but when you jump into the tail end of it and try to argue a point, you miss things in translation.

I have never once said anything against adding players. I said that you are not going to add them in one offseason, that there are issues with that, that I personally don't like signing FA SP, and that FA is not the answer that some fans think it is. As the home team fans we like to think our team is better than it is, and think we are closer to competing than we are. We have a way to go and a lot of questions to answer, so the people thinking we are going to compete in 2009 need to learn some patience and focus on that young talent we have coming through.

[FutureOwner]

No one said anything about adding mediocre FA. Adding FA when the time is not right no matter who they are is a bad idea. I think Tex is a good add compared to how many large bats and 1B are coming on the market in the next 2-3 years. I don't believe in adding FA SP, too often they do not work out, and they are not worth the money between injury risk and participating in roughly 20% of the games that an offensive player does. I believe you develop pitching and your core, and then you add key missing parts of your lineup through FA.

AM is talking about adding mediocre FA's. He is NOT talking about being in the mix for the top players on the market.

You can compete with 2 really good starters (#2+ quality), 1 other SP who gives you a chance to win most nights (#3 quality), a guy who will be ok and eats innings so your BP doesnt get killed and a kid who is developing.

If you have a starting staff like that, a good BP and a decent lineup, which we do you can make a run and improve the team.

If you sit around wasting the good years you get from your already decent core of players hoping to see a bunch of young guys blossom at the same time youll be a bottom feeder for the foreseeable future.

[Wind Rider]

One of the problems with this team is they have been run over the last ten years to make a profit, not win. They've been very successful, up near the top in income over the period. They have a great stadium deal, their costs are low. They actually could afford the $70M more a year with no trouble. Under current managment they will become even more profitable.

The bigger problem is how with much higher draft choices we manage to win far fewer minor league games than the Yankees and BOSOX.

[FutureOwner]

Look at the Red Sox as an example. Obviously they have FAs too, but they have chosen to mainly build from within. It's the best way to get depth, and it's cheaper, so they can save their budget for only the special FA they really want.

1. Ellsbury*

2. Pedroia*

3. Ortiz

4. Youkilis*

5. Drew

6. Bay

7. Lowell

8. Lowrie*

9. Varitek

1. Beckett

2. Dice-K

3. Wakefield

4. Byrd

5. Lester*

The Redsox have 4 recently developed position players, 1 SP and a CL contributing to their team.

They are a team that has been built through FA and trades and supplemented through their system.

[osfan83]

THis team will sign two FA starting pitchers this year both for about 6 mil a year, both over 30 and both mediocre at best. They will also sign a FA SS for about 4 mil per year. These players will help the team win 72 games in 2009 and 74 games in 2010.

I would rather take that same 16mil and get one players that is well above average that can help us over the next 3 or 4 years.

[FutureOwner]

One of the problems with this team is they have been run over the last ten years to make a profit, not win. They've been very successful, up near the top in income over the period. They have a great stadium deal, their costs are low. They actually could afford the $70M more a year with no trouble. Under current managment they will become even more profitable.

The bigger problem is how with much higher draft choices we manage to win far fewer minor league games than the Yankees and BOSOX.

Exactly what Im saying, the team has been MAKING money hand over fist during our "rebuilding" period(s).

Its time to spend some of that money on payroll.

[FutureOwner]

THis team will sign two FA starting pitchers this year both for about 6 mil a year, both over 30 and both mediocre at best. They will also sign a FA SS for about 4 mil per year. These players will help the team win 72 games in 2009 and 74 games in 2010.

I would rather take that same 16mil and get one players that is well above average that can help us over the next 3 or 4 years.

Exactly! Everyone keeps talking about how we've tried to go the FA route and failed so we shouldnt try again...I think its more evident that we've tried to draft in the top 10 for the last 10 years and have had even less success.

Everyone expects our staff to suddenly evaluate 18-21 year olds better but doesnt think those same talent evaluators can look at established players and make a good decision.

[Intimidator301]

Problem is, by the time you get the next 1/3 in place, the first 1/3 will be gone.

I agree 100%

With FA, the window to win is smaller and smaller.

It took 10 years of losing for TB to get where they are at, and they may be able to hang around 2 or 3 years, until they can't afford to keep anyone.

The same people that say don't sign anyone until we are close, does that mean they believe we shouldn't extend Markakis?

I mean, why invest longterm into him, when we probably won't contend during that contract.

Heck, why extend anyone. Lets just get 3 or 4 cheap years out of our young guys, then trade them off. Lets just become the minors for every other team willing to go out and improve their teams.

That's why Roberts is sick of it here, and I'm sure Markakis is getting to that point.

Young guys eventually become veterans who want to win. Just seems that's not in Baltimore. But maybe, just maybe Nick will want 5 or 6 more years of the same crap.

Hey, maybe bringing back Payton and Millar will show them we're willing to commit to putting a winner on the field.

[zff4]

I've gotten the impression from rumor and a few things that AM has said that lead me to think he's risk averse with respect to spending on big ticket players. He'll spend what he thinks is reasonable, but it's unlikely to be at levels that will make most of us wave our hats in the air.

For AM, the Rays template for success is the preferred model: farm development, key trades, and pitching acquisition either through shrewd trades or modest spending on free agents.

What I think is certain is that he isn't going to throw splashy dollars at free agents.

We're in for a wait my friends, get comfy.

[FutureOwner]

I agree 100%

With FA, the window to win is smaller and smaller.

It took 10 years of losing for TB to get where they are at, and they may be able to hang around 2 or 3 years, until they can't afford to keep anyone.

The same people that say don't sign anyone until we are close, does that mean they believe we shouldn't extend Markakis?

I mean, why invest longterm into him, when we probably won't contend during that contract.

Heck, why extend anyone. Lets just get 3 or 4 cheap years out of our young guys, then trade them off. Lets just become the minors for every other team willing to go out and improve their teams.

That's why Roberts is sick of it here, and I'm sure Markakis is getting to that point.

Young guys eventually become veterans who want to win. Just seems that's not in Baltimore. But maybe, just maybe Nick will want 5 or 6 more years of the same crap.

Hey, maybe bringing back Payton and Millar will show them we're willing to commit to putting a winner on the field.

Which is why I say to add the best players you can to that mix and see if the magic happens. No one thought this lineup would be as good as it was this year. If they had another SP as good as Guthrie who knows what effect it would have had, especially the BP.

2 starters and a cleanup hitter would do wonders. If those starters come from FA or the system, I dont care, I just know we need them.

[FutureOwner]

I've gotten the impression from rumor and a few things that AM has said that lead me to think he's risk averse with respect to spending on big ticket players. He'll spend what he thinks is reasonable, but it's unlikely to be at levels that will make most of us wave our hats in the air.

For AM, the Rays template for success is the preferred model: farm development, key trades, and pitching acquisition either through shrewd trades or modest spending on free agents.

What I think is certain is that he isn't going to throw splashy dollars at free agents.

We're in for a wait my friends, get comfy.

Im sure the Rays model is preferred by 100% of MLB as long as they dont have to wait 10 years to see positive results.

Best record in the AL with the 2nd lowest payroll? Yeah that would be preferable. Theres a reason why everyone was so surprised when it happened.

[zff4]

Im sure the Rays model is preferred by 100% of MLB as long as they dont have to wait 10 years to see positive results.

The Rays doing what they did was the worst possible timing for us. AM is going to point and say, "this vindicates what I've been thinking and this is how it should be done." And he'll try to do it the way they did it. Trouble is, there is no "how it should be done." Nobody knows how it should be done.

I'm not saying he's not a good baseball man, I'm just saying he's philisophically averse to large payrolls. Myself, I wish he'd break the bank.

[osfan83]

Well, it will be interesting to see if Nick extends. I don't think either he or B-Rob will, unless they believe we will compete in the next 3 years.

If Nick and B-Rob don't extend this off season, we now must wait to draft a 2b and RF.