Frederick Dropped

[SteveA]

6 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Just my personal experience but my wife and I usually spend a couple of nights a year downtown. You don’t see nearly the foot traffic after games, non game days that you saw years ago around the stadiums. 
 

Now maybe this is just our experience but I think it’s not. 

The places people go "downtown" have changed a bit.   The Inner Harbor area has less good stuff to do, while Fells Point, Canton, Hamden, East Harbor, and Federal Hill have a lot more going on.   Go to one of those five areas and there are plenty of people around.   Mt Vernon and Mt Washington areas are still what they have always been.

It will help when they go through with these plans to develop the strip between the casino and Ravens stadium as an entertainment complex.   A few times back in 2017, before I developed arthritis in my knees, I would go to the casino on a Saturday afternoon, park there for free, and walk all the way to Oriole Park for a game.   It was a bit of a hike (especially because I couldn't take the direct route and walk across the 50 yard line of the stadium, had to take the long way around the west side), and going back at night that section between M&T and the casino was pretty deserted.   Never had any issues but it was kind of iffy.  

Once that entertainment district on those blocks I think that will help the area.   Checkerspot Brewing is doing a good business too.

[eddie83]

6 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Hmm, maybe someone should reach out to the Orioles about the lack of light. I haven't experienced that, but I live closer to the stadium than those lots. Seems like the Orioles would want their suburban fans to feel safe.

Regardless, I have not heard of any instances of an Orioles fan being a victim of crime in the parking lots, and it seems like something that would make the news. The last Orioles related crime I can remember is a few years ago when that Yankees fan was brutally beaten and that was in the stadium, not exactly the urban crime that everyone is worried about. There was also a member of the Orioles groundscrew who got held up and had his phone stolen walking through my neighborhood two-three years ago, but that was a person walking alone after midnight hours after the game.

I’m not saying I am in fear... but little stuff like that matters. Also not everyone parks at the stadium lots.  

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, MurphDogg said:

Glad we have that no-politics rule here.

What's political about what I said? These are actual statements and facts from mayors of the city. I never called either names or said what they said was right or wrong, just facts that I believe have affected suburban fans from coming to games. In fact, I know people who have told me straight up they will not go into Baltimore anymore. 

Now, you live there and feel different, that's fine. I'm sure there are others, particularly millennials that don't feel unsafe going to the stadium area, or Fells, or Fed Hill and that is fine is well. But many families do feel unsafe in the city for various reasons.

Whether you want to admit it or not, or whether it's even reality, but Baltimore has huge perception problem right now. That is going to affect the attendance of baseball games. Rightfully or wrongfully, until the perception issue is solved in some manner, I don't see the average attendance ever going over 30K again (something that only has happened once since 2005).

 

 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

The places people go "downtown" have changed a bit.   The Inner Harbor area has less good stuff to do, while Fells Point, Canton, Hamden, East Harbor, and Federal Hill have a lot more going on.   Go to one of those five areas and there are plenty of people around.   Mt Vernon and Mt Washington areas are still what they have always been.

It will help when they go through with these plans to develop the strip between the casino and Ravens stadium as an entertainment complex.   A few times back in 2017, before I developed arthritis in my knees, I would go to the casino on a Saturday afternoon, park there for free, and walk all the way to Oriole Park for a game.   It was a bit of a hike (especially because I couldn't take the direct route and walk across the 50 yard line of the stadium, had to take the long way around the west side), and going back at night that section between M&T and the casino was pretty deserted.   Never had any issues but it was kind of iffy.  

Once that entertainment district on those blocks I think that will help the area.   Checkerspot Brewing is doing a good business too.

We usually go to the casino when we stay. Haven’t been down to the city since January. You make some very good points. I was referring to the stadium area. 
 

Strictly from an Orioles standpoint it’s more important how that area is doing that other parts of the city. The entertainment district could be huge for the teams. 

[MurphDogg]

4 minutes ago, SteveA said:

The places people go "downtown" have changed a bit.   The Inner Harbor area has less good stuff to do, while Fells Point, Canton, Hamden, East Harbor, and Federal Hill have a lot more going on.   Go to one of those five areas and there are plenty of people around.   Mt Vernon and Mt Washington areas are still what they have always been.

It will help when they go through with these plans to develop the strip between the casino and Ravens stadium as an entertainment complex.   A few times back in 2017, before I developed arthritis in my knees, I would go to the casino on a Saturday afternoon, park there for free, and walk all the way to Oriole Park for a game.   It was a bit of a hike (especially because I couldn't take the direct route and walk across the 50 yard line of the stadium, had to take the long way around the west side), and going back at night that section between M&T and the casino was pretty deserted.   Never had any issues but it was kind of iffy.  

Once that entertainment district on those blocks I think that will help the area.   Checkerspot Brewing is doing a good business too.

Yeah, that industrial stretch between the casino and the Ravens stadium doesn't feel particularly safe. It isn't well lit and there isn't much going on there. I know people that park at the casino and walk, but that walk back isn't very inviting. I have taken an Uber from the casino to my house which is right next to the stadium, to avoid that walk.

Checkerspot is doing a great business, I hd my baby shower there in January, great setup upstairs for anyone looking to do a party in that area (and with plenty of parking right there).

They also had the best social distance setup over the summer, it was basically a tailgate with shade from 395 above.

[SteveA]

35 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I agree. I do think major sports will all see declines for various reasons, including a newer generation that prefers to stay home and play xbox online with friends then go to games. 

Teams will needs to use streaming services to attract viewers and hope those viewers turn into fans that attend games. It's still a good time to spend an evening in Camden Yards, but it's more fun if the team is doing well, there are players you want to watch play personally, and the parking is close, cheap and safe.

Your point is good but I don't think it's just about staying home and playing video games like you and I and lots of "old folk" (that's what we are!) like to say.   They also would rather participate in sports than watch them, and they seem to have taken to soccer as a spectator sport at the expense of the traditional big ones.   I go out and try a lot of craft beers at places that are frequented by the younger generation and I'm amazed at how often there are no TVs at all or the TVs aren't tuned to sports like we are used to in pretty much every bar that we would go to.   And they go to bars and breweries and coffee shops and they play board games like Scrabble or things like Jenga.

Following a sports team is just not part of the DNA of that generation like it was ours.   And baseball is the sport you have to FOLLOW the most.   One individual game doesn't mean that much, the season is a marathon, stories evolve over time.   And it just seems like something an awful lot of people who are in thier 20s and 30s now aren't interested in and probably n ever will be.

[MurphDogg]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

What's political about what I said? These are actual statements and facts from mayors of the city. I never called either names or said what they said was right or wrong.

What is political about discussing the political statements made by the city's politicians?

The statements are misleading and taken out of context, talks of "defending the police" is a political talking point, and calling Baltimore lawless is hardly apolitical, but seeing as how there are only 20-30 posting members on the site these days, I don't mean to tell you how to enforce or follow your rules. 

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Whether you want to admit it or not, or whether it's even reality, but Baltimore has huge perception problem right now. That is going to affect the attendance of baseball games. Rightfully or wrongfully, until the perception issue is solved in some manner, I don't see the average attendance ever going over 30K again (something that only has happened once since 2005).

It’s a moot point until the team is a contender for at least three years in a row like it was in 2012-14.   Honestly, it would probably take more like five consecutive years of contention, considering the low ebb we’ll be starting from.    I hope I live long enough to see that happen and test the hypothesis.   

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

It’s a moot point until the team is a contender for at least three years in a row like it was in 2012-14.   Honestly, it would probably take more like five consecutive years of contention, considering the low ebb we’ll be starting from.    I hope I live long enough to see that happen and test the hypothesis.   

I really think we are closer than outside people believe. I don’t think it’s impossible by 2023 we can be a wildcard contender. A lot would have to go right but young talent can jump up faster than expected. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I really think we are closer than outside people believe. I don’t think it’s impossible by 2023 we can be a wildcard contender. A lot would have to go right but young talent can jump up faster than expected. 

Not if Elias won't promote them.

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Your point is good but I don't think it's just about staying home and playing video games like you and I and lots of "old folk" (that's what we are!) like to say.   They also would rather participate in sports than watch them, and they seem to have taken to soccer as a spectator sport at the expense of the traditional big ones.   I go out and try a lot of craft beers at places that are frequented by the younger generation and I'm amazed at how often there are no TVs at all or the TVs aren't tuned to sports like we are used to in pretty much every bar that we would go to.   And they go to bars and breweries and coffee shops and they play board games like Scrabble or things like Jenga.

Following a sports team is just not part of the DNA of that generation like it was ours.   And baseball is the sport you have to FOLLOW the most.   One individual game doesn't mean that much, the season is a marathon, stories evolve over time.   And it just seems like something an awful lot of people who are in thier 20s and 30s now aren't interested in and probably n ever will be.

Yeah, I agree. I frequent those place too (like Hysteria) and they typically will have reruns of Friends on the screen instead of the Orioles game. I don't know if my own younger son (23) has ever watched an Orioles game from start to finish in TV, ever. He might come in and watch a few innings while he eats or if the game is close and he may watch the end, but he just doesn't have the same love of the game as I did and trust me, he was given all the opportunity in the world to love it from me! lol

Baseball is at a crossroads as our generation is probably the last of the real die hards for the sport. I'm not saying they're aren't some die hards under 30, but I bet there are lot fewer of them then when we were in our 20s.

I see teams going to smaller, tech savvy stadiums that will give people things to do that have to do with the game like using their smart phone to predict what a batter will do and win some kind of points when they are right that can be redeemed for future tickets or maybe merchandise/food or even leaderboards in the stadium so a person would "famous" for a night for being first or in the top three?

I don't know, but they are going to have to come up with a streaming option that also could use some kind of game like that as well. This would encourage people to turn in to get on the daily, weekly, monthly and season leaderboards!  

[MurphDogg]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I really think we are closer than outside people believe. I don’t think it’s impossible by 2023 we can be a wildcard contender. A lot would have to go right but young talent can jump up faster than expected. 

I wouldn't be totally shocked with 2022, with playoffs expanding. If Hall and Rodriguez are MLB ready 2-3 starters, some of the remaining pitching prospects fill the rest of the rotation and Adley is as good as we all hope, why not?

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

What is political about discussing the political statements made by the city's politicians?

The statements are misleading and taken out of context, talks of "defending the police" is a political talking point, and calling Baltimore lawless is hardly apolitical, but seeing as how there are only 20-30 posting members on the site these days, I don't mean to tell you how to enforce or follow your rules. 

Lol. nice try at a shot, but there lots more than that.

Either way, you can take it how you like and focus on that or you can admit that you are wrong, that Baltimore's reputation is part of the problem. I realize you won't do that because you see things in two shades, black and white, while I see things in a massive array of shades of gray.

Baltimore is hemorrhaging residents and businesses. You can make your own decision why that is and then it will become political. In case you think I'm making that up, here's a Sun article. https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-population-estimates-20200326-nebck2k2anbwrcfsbknphsfgwi-story.html

But, again, I've tried several time to get this back to baseball attendance but you want to focus on the other stuff.

At the end of the day, there are various reasons why I don't think the Orioles will ever average 30K fans again. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[SteveA]

3 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I wouldn't be totally shocked with 2022, with playoffs expanding. If Hall and Rodriguez are MLB ready 2-3 starters, some of the remaining pitching prospects fill the rest of the rotation and Adley is as good as we all hope, why not?

Until they prove me wrong by not doing, I'm sticking this time table:

2018 -- win total was in the 40s

2019 -- win total was in the 50s

2020 -- win total pro-rated to a total in the 60s

2021 -- in the 70s (or pro-rate to 70 if we play a shorter season)

2022 -- in the 80s, which probably means we might be on the fringe of contention based on how far into the 80s we get or whether we start fast and ifnish slow to reach our 8? wins or whether we start slow and finish fast to get there

2023-- shoot for the 90s!   That means contending

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I'll stick to hoping for that trend to continue until it's obvious it won't.   Each year we see more young players on the roster.

[eddie83]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not if Elias won't promote them.

I certainly hope by that year they are all up here. Not saying all by Opening Day that year.