Trade Bait 2021

[UMDTerrapins]

59 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think we’re thin on IF depth at all.    But the depth doesn’t have much AA/AAA experience.    Highest level played by O’s IF in the OH top 30:

5. Henderson - GCL

8.  Westburg - hasn’t played

13. Vavra - high A

15. Mayo - hasn’t played

19. Hernaiz - GCL

21. Hall - low A

26. Servideo - hasn’t played 

29. Bannon - AAA

30. Nevin - AAA 

Jahmai Jones probably would be on the list if he’d been in the organization when Tony did his rankings (and Nevin would be out).

Seems like I keep hearing people talk about our IF depth being thin. I don’t get it either. That list (adding Jones as you mention) doesn’t even include Hernandez, who is a long term project with huge upside. But there are also potential contributors like Martin, McCoy, Wilkerson, Welk. I’ve never seen us with as much IF depth as we have right now. 

[cnmilton]

It also sounds like the Orioles are pretty excited about Joey Ortiz or at least Matt Blood is excited). Ortiz sounds like he definitely profiles as a Shortstop

[Bahama O's Fan]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see them as top notch MLB players by the time we should be competitive, 2022 or 2023. They seem like more "future" than that. 

[HowAboutThat]

As always there is a huge difference between quantity and quality. I can’t comment, because I don’t know anything about the minor leaguers, but I am more interested in a few guys who are good and who are close. It shouldn’t be too hard to be better than Urias and Valaika.

[Three Run Homer]

I think John Means is the best starting pitcher the Orioles have had since Mike Mussina.  Having said that--should the O's be open to trading him if they could get a package similar to what the White Sox got for Jose Quintana a few years ago (four players headlined by Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease)?  At the time, Jimenez was the Cubs' top prospect and a consensus top-10 prospect in all of MLB, and Cease was the Cubs' number 2 prospect.  

[Hazmat]

8 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I think John Means is the best starting pitcher the Orioles have had since Mike Mussina.  Having said that--should the O's be open to trading him if they could get a package similar to what the White Sox got for Jose Quintana a few years ago (four players headlined by Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease)?  At the time, Jimenez was the Cubs' top prospect and a consensus top-10 prospect in all of MLB, and Cease was the Cubs' number 2 prospect.  

Would you do CJ Abrams and a top-10 Padres pitching prospect?

[UMDTerrapins]

8 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I think John Means is the best starting pitcher the Orioles have had since Mike Mussina.  Having said that--should the O's be open to trading him if they could get a package similar to what the White Sox got for Jose Quintana a few years ago (four players headlined by Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease)?  At the time, Jimenez was the Cubs' top prospect and a consensus top-10 prospect in all of MLB, and Cease was the Cubs' number 2 prospect.  

It would have to be a real nice return for a top starter who is under our control for 4 more years. But if it’s a good return we’d have to be open to it I think. Bedard was about the same age when dealt him, but was closer to free agency IIRC. If Means was younger I’d be more reluctant to part with him. Really depends on what’s being offered. 

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

I think John Means is the best starting pitcher the Orioles have had since Mike Mussina.  Having said that--should the O's be open to trading him if they could get a package similar to what the White Sox got for Jose Quintana a few years ago (four players headlined by Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease)?  At the time, Jimenez was the Cubs' top prospect and a consensus top-10 prospect in all of MLB, and Cease was the Cubs' number 2 prospect.  

Yes

[HowAboutThat]

“If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.”

”If somebody offers us a whole lot for John Means, should we trade him?”

define “a whole lot”?

Without that, the question is meaningless.

A discussion about trade bait I think is more fruitful if we talk about the average guys. Can we trade Stewart for anything? Can we get anything for Cisco or Severino(no and no) or Fry? 
Im not sure how much value Stewart has, but it’s not zero, and his defense has been pretty good... well, I just checked baseball savant and his defense hasn’t really been that good. He’s minus 1OAA in LF, and average in RF but not many chances, and his offense has been mediocre. But he’s got some value, and it would be interesting to see what a guy like him might bring.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

I think John Means is the best starting pitcher the Orioles have had since Mike Mussina.  

On the one hand, that sounds like a very strong statement.   On the other hand, when you look at our pitching over the last 20 years, maybe it isn’t.   

I’d say Bedard was better than Means, though his career was short-lived and he was injury prone.   And, I’d like to see Means perform well for a longer period of time before saying he’s better than a few of the others we’ve had.    

rWAR as an Oriole:

Guthrie 16.1

Bedard 12.8

Britton 10.9 

Gausman 10.2

Chen 9.4

Lopez 9.3

Tillman 8.9

 

[Hank Scorpio]

On 4/28/2021 at 5:58 PM, Frobby said:

On the one hand, that sounds like a very strong statement.   On the other hand, when you look at our pitching over the last 20 years, maybe it isn’t.   

I’d say Bedard was better than Means, though his career was short-lived and he was injury prone.   And, I’d like to see Means perform well for a longer period of time before saying he’s better than a few of the others we’ve had.    

rWAR as an Oriole:

Guthrie 16.1

Bedard 12.8

Britton 10.9 

Gausman 10.2

Chen 9.4

Lopez 9.3

Tillman 8.9

 

Not to diminish Means, I think he's fantastic. Legitimately.

But this is more of a commentary of the organization's inability to develop pitching more than anything. At least I would think.

[Orioles0615]

On 4/28/2021 at 2:07 PM, Hazmat said:

Would you do CJ Abrams and a top-10 Padres pitching prospect?

I would vote yes, but anything less than something like this for me is a no

[Redskins Rick]

On 4/28/2021 at 5:58 PM, Frobby said:

On the one hand, that sounds like a very strong statement.   On the other hand, when you look at our pitching over the last 20 years, maybe it isn’t.   

I’d say Bedard was better than Means, though his career was short-lived and he was injury prone.   And, I’d like to see Means perform well for a longer period of time before saying he’s better than a few of the others we’ve had.    

rWAR as an Oriole:

Guthrie 16.1

Bedard 12.8

Britton 10.9 

Gausman 10.2

Chen 9.4

Lopez 9.3

Tillman 8.9

I like Means.

Palmer said on more than once occasion, Bedard had the best stuff as a Lefty that he had seen in an Oriole uniform and he said, nothing against the other guys. He said Bedard was special, it just never reflected well in his W-L record as the supporting team was so terrible.

I dont always agree with Palmer, but he knows more about pitching than myself, and thats a fact.

 

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

I like Means.

Palmer said on more than once occasion, Bedard had the best stuff as a Lefty that he had seen in an Oriole uniform and he said, nothing against the other guys. He said Bedard was special, it just never reflected well in his W-L record as the supporting team was so terrible.

He did go 15-11 and 13-5 his last two seasons, pitching for teams that went 70-92 and 69-93.   In the latter season, the O’s won every game he pitched from June 21 to August 21, a total of 12 starts in which he personally went 9-0 and the team won the other three as well.    

[UMDTerrapins]

The Bedard trade was obviously huge for us....traded at age 28 with two years before free agency. Means is 28 and four years from free agency. If we’re seriously thinking of dealing Means, we should get a real haul in return...and then pray we’re as fortunate as we were with Bedard’s deal.