Villar , Robertson , 2 Starters and let’s go to spring training

[Ruzious]

14 minutes ago, ofan239 said:

I’d like to see what Robertson could do everyday with 400-500 at bats. Maybe he is just a utility player or maybe he  could turn into something else. If we were contending I wouldn’t consider signing him .And if we aren’t signing someone like Andrelton Simmons or Gregorios why not give him the opportunity to see what he does with it . It’s not going to be a needle moving type of transaction . I am not expecting it to be. But he could turn out to have some value for us in an area (middle infield ) where we need it .

It can't be just "Why not go with Roberston?"  It's gotta be "Why go with Robertson?"  What about him makes you think he can do the job?  If there's a good reason for it, I'm all ears...  figuratively speaking.  

[rudyrooster]

Lets just rotate Martin and Valaika at SS and call it a day.  We aren't in win-mode this season anyway.

[ofan239]

13 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

It can't be just "Why not go with Roberston?"  It's gotta be "Why go with Robertson?"  What about him makes you think he can do the job?  If there's a good reason for it, I'm all ears...  figuratively speaking.  

I like the fact that he plays the infield and the outfield 

I like the fact he’s a contact hitter 

I like that fact that he’s played in the AL East 

I like the fact that he can get on base - .342 career obp. And higher than that in the milb

I like the fact that he was a shortstop that was drafted in the first round 

here’s an article on his season last year 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mccoveychronicles.com/platform/amp/2020/11/20/21583274/san-francisco-giants-daniel-robertson-season-review

 

 

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, ofan239 said:

I like the fact that he plays the infield and the outfield 

I like the fact he’s a contact hitter 

I like that fact that he’s played in the AL East 

I like the fact that he can get on base - .342 career obp. And higher than that in the milb

I like the fact that he was a shortstop that was drafted in the first round 

here’s an article on his season last year 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mccoveychronicles.com/platform/amp/2020/11/20/21583274/san-francisco-giants-daniel-robertson-season-review

 

 

 

 

Ryan Mountcastle was a shortstop that was drafted in the first round.

[ofan239]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Ryan Mountcastle was a shortstop that was drafted in the first round.

If you watch highlights of him in the infield you’ll see he’s a little bit better defensively than Mountcastle was haha . 

[Ruzious]

5 minutes ago, ofan239 said:

I like the fact that he plays the infield and the outfield 

I like the fact he’s a contact hitter 

I like that fact that he’s played in the AL East 

I like the fact that he can get on base - .342 career obp. And higher than that in the milb

I like the fact that he was a shortstop that was drafted in the first round 

here’s an article on his season last year 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mccoveychronicles.com/platform/amp/2020/11/20/21583274/san-francisco-giants-daniel-robertson-season-review

 

 

 

 

Fair enough - he's certainly versatile, though his role would have to be expanded just to reach small sample size level.  I do like the case for high OBP more than the others.      

[VaBird1]

I'd rather let Bannon, Urias and Valaika play than Villar or Robertson.

[BohKnowsBmore]

22 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you are going to spend 4M on Villar why wouldn't you just spend 3.5M on Iglesias?  Are the O's that high on Stallings?

Stallings probably has at least 500k in expected excess value by the teams models. Theoretically you could flip Villar at the deadline as well for something of marginal utility if he’s playing well. 

[ofan239]

4 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Stallings probably has at least 500k in expected excess value by the teams models. Theoretically you could flip Villar at the deadline as well for something of marginal utility if he’s playing well. 

Exactly - and if Robertson emerges or someone like Bannon or Urias gets called up mid season you have depth 

[ofan239]

The guy I’d really like to see the Os get is Jake Cronenworth but I don’t know if the padres are interested in dealing him - but they have depth there now so if I am Elias I am at least exploring that possibility.

 

 

[ScGO's]

Been thinking about this.  Unless someone absolutely falls into our lap for rock bottom prices, I don't really see Elias making any moves for pitching or SS.  Nothing really has to be forced.  We have enough depth to move forward into 2021 without a single transaction.  This is Elias 3rd year; he wants/needs to evaluate more young talent at the MLB level before figuring out how and when to move the team into competition. We are starting to accumulate a lot of AA/AAA prospects so its time to see what we have before starting to pursue free agents again.

For starting pitching we have enough depth with Means, Cobb, Akin, Kremer, and Lopez.  After them Zimmerman, Baumann, Lowther, Wells, Smith, Bradish, the Rule V guys, Goudeau, and we haven't even started talking about GrayRod or Hall yet. There is also lot at the A/AA level that may be able to jump into a spot by August if they show the growth.

For SS, I think the real sleeper here is Ramon Urias. He's still on the 40 man and, granted, it was 25 ABs, but Ramon smashed for the O's last year.  If you go to his Baseball Reference page, you will see that in 2013 he was sold to the Mexican League by the Ranger,s at age 18 and since then, Ramon has never really struggled.  He destroyed the Mexican League with a life time OPS of .898 and an Avg of .323. in 1300+ Plate Appearances. He hit well in the Mexican Winter League with a .296/.388/ .813 line in just under 1000 PA's.  He joined St. Louis' system in 2018, OPSing .996 in 44 games at AA, 194 PA's.  He was then moved to AAA and over the rest of 2018 and 2019, Ramon slashed .262/ .347/ .773 in 142 games, 524 PA's.  He will start the season at 26 years of age.  Elias might have found a hidden gem here.

Beyond Urias, I think we need to see what Richie Martin and Mason McCoy can handle at the big league level. They will both be 26 at the start of the season.  I think those 3 with a spell from Sanchez or Valaika will get us through 2021.  Rylan Bannon will also be 25 this season and will need to be in the 2B/3B mix.  I count about 6 players right there that can get reps in the middle infield.  There is also a lot of A/AA depth starting to build, so you never know which one of those prospects may take a jump and be ready by July or August.

[ofan239]

15 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Been thinking about this.  Unless someone absolutely falls into our lap for rock bottom prices, I don't really see Elias making any moves for pitching or SS.  Nothing really has to be forced.  We have enough depth to move forward into 2021 without a single transaction.  This is Elias 3rd year; he wants/needs to evaluate more young talent at the MLB level before figuring out how and when to move the team into competition. We are starting to accumulate a lot of AA/AAA prospects so its time to see what we have before starting to pursue free agents again.

For starting pitching we have enough depth with Means, Cobb, Akin, Kremer, and Lopez.  After them Zimmerman, Baumann, Lowther, Wells, Smith, Bradish, the Rule V guys, Goudeau, and we haven't even started talking about GrayRod or Hall yet. There is also lot at the A/AA level that may be able to jump into a spot by August if they show the growth.

For SS, I think the real sleeper here is Ramon Urias. He's still on the 40 man and, granted, it was 25 ABs, but Ramon smashed for the O's last year.  If you go to his Baseball Reference page, you will see that in 2013 he was sold to the Mexican League by the Ranger,s at age 18 and since then, Ramon has never really struggled.  He destroyed the Mexican League with a life time OPS of .898 and an Avg of .323. in 1300+ Plate Appearances. He hit well in the Mexican Winter League with a .296/.388/ .813 line in just under 1000 PA's.  He joined St. Louis' system in 2018, OPSing .996 in 44 games at AA, 194 PA's.  He was then moved to AAA and over the rest of 2018 and 2019, Ramon slashed .262/ .347/ .773 in 142 games, 524 PA's.  He will start the season at 26 years of age.  Elias might have found a hidden gem here.

Beyond Urias, I think we need to see what Richie Martin and Mason McCoy can handle at the big league level. They will both be 26 at the start of the season.  I think those 3 with a spell from Sanchez or Valaika will get us through 2021.  Rylan Bannon will also be 25 this season and will need to be in the 2B/3B mix.  I count about 6 players right there that can get reps in the middle infield.  There is also a lot of A/AA depth starting to build, so you never know which one of those prospects may take a jump and be ready by July or August.

Exactly infield depth is coming - that’s why I would be targeting those players that are versatile and have some offensive upside - the Robertson’s , the Cronenworths . Players that can play multiple positions including outfield if possible . In terms of position player personnel those that have a little bit of a track record at the mlb level .Thats what I am targeting if I am Elias . If Urias can play shortstop at the mlb level, awesome - shift a Cronenworth or a Robertson to another position .

Edited January 9, 2021 by ofan239

[wildcard]

40 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Been thinking about this.  Unless someone absolutely falls into our lap for rock bottom prices, I don't really see Elias making any moves for pitching or SS.  Nothing really has to be forced.  We have enough depth to move forward into 2021 without a single transaction.  This is Elias 3rd year; he wants/needs to evaluate more young talent at the MLB level before figuring out how and when to move the team into competition. We are starting to accumulate a lot of AA/AAA prospects so its time to see what we have before starting to pursue free agents again.

For starting pitching we have enough depth with Means, Cobb, Akin, Kremer, and Lopez.  After them Zimmerman, Baumann, Lowther, Wells, Smith, Bradish, the Rule V guys, Goudeau, and we haven't even started talking about GrayRod or Hall yet. There is also lot at the A/AA level that may be able to jump into a spot by August if they show the growth.

For SS, I think the real sleeper here is Ramon Urias. He's still on the 40 man and, granted, it was 25 ABs, but Ramon smashed for the O's last year.  If you go to his Baseball Reference page, you will see that in 2013 he was sold to the Mexican League by the Ranger,s at age 18 and since then, Ramon has never really struggled.  He destroyed the Mexican League with a life time OPS of .898 and an Avg of .323. in 1300+ Plate Appearances. He hit well in the Mexican Winter League with a .296/.388/ .813 line in just under 1000 PA's.  He joined St. Louis' system in 2018, OPSing .996 in 44 games at AA, 194 PA's.  He was then moved to AAA and over the rest of 2018 and 2019, Ramon slashed .262/ .347/ .773 in 142 games, 524 PA's.  He will start the season at 26 years of age.  Elias might have found a hidden gem here.

Beyond Urias, I think we need to see what Richie Martin and Mason McCoy can handle at the big league level. They will both be 26 at the start of the season.  I think those 3 with a spell from Sanchez or Valaika will get us through 2021.  Rylan Bannon will also be 25 this season and will need to be in the 2B/3B mix.  I count about 6 players right there that can get reps in the middle infield.  There is also a lot of A/AA depth starting to build, so you never know which one of those prospects may take a jump and be ready by July or August.

I agree with a lot of this but I think Elias does not want to rush Lowther, Baumann, Wells, etc.   That has been his practice so far.   Nor does he want to rely on Lopez if all he can get from him is an ERA of 6.00+.   That is why I think he adds a veteran starter or two like Milone or McHugh for less than a million dollars each.

[Philip]

No matter how loudly I scream no regarding Villar, it’s not loudly enough.

[Philip]

12 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Stallings probably has at least 500k in expected excess value by the teams models. Theoretically you could flip Villar at the deadline as well for something of marginal utility if he’s playing well. 

We tried that and ended up non-tendering him.