If I am Mike Elias I am on the phone with the padres

[Roll Tide]

10 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Yeah, but he's young and cheap enough to be someone I could see him wanting. He has a little outfield depth to work with as well.

Is he blocked or being displaced in San Diego? Is CF a need for San Diego? I assume Elias would look to trade Santander or Mancini. Since Mancini has little value until he makes a successful return to cancer. 

So say they’d take Santander, could you get something like Lange,  Ona, and a 3rd guy like Aquino?

 

[Sports Guy]

8 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Diaz is average at best defensively and looses focus at times defensively and on the base paths. Diaz has never been able to bring his above average raw power into the game consistently and he's only one year younger than Hays and hays has already shown the ability to hit Major league pitching. 

Both have health concerns but when healthy, Hays slashed .330/.367/.594/.960 in AA at 21 years of age when Diaz slashed .262/.335/.472/.807 at 22 in AA.

Hays to me is a much better player overall and has a much better chance to stick in center than Diaz who probably should be a corner outfielder. 

Now maybe Diaz puts his raw skills together and perhaps his penchant for playing big on the big stage will result in him doing better at the major league level than in the boring mostly empty minor league parks, but I think hays will end up the much better big league player when it's all said and done.

Ehhh, Hays had that 960 OPS in just 260 at bats.  The following year, in AA, he had a 703 OPS in 273 at bats.  Overall, Diaz has a higher AA OPS, albeit by just a few points.

Diaz also had an OBP of 50 points higher in AA, which goes back to my bigger point of why I prefer him long term.

The both hit for the same average in AA throughout their career.  Hays has the slightly higher career average in the minors overall.  
 

Diaz strikes out every 4.5 at bats.  Hays every 4.9.

Hays showed a lot more power, with a career slugging 68 points higher.  The one thing I do like about Diaz’s slugging numbers is they were much better in AA than they were in A.

I don’t feel you can trust either one because of injuries but I think Diaz’s ability to take a walk and his developing power is the overall better skill set.  Hays is probably the better defender but Diaz should provide good enough defense on the corner.  
 

But again, I think we will be lucky if either of them sticks as an everyday player.  I want to give them the chance to do it but it’s tough to trust them.

[DrungoHazewood]

8 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

I am still just in my 40's, but feeling the Get Off My Lawn grumpy old man about SS stretches in the time of our annual vacancy.

You know what shortstops do?  Play shortstop!   The regime's assessment of Gunnar and Westburg I will mostly hear on the PASS/FAIL class they are taking - Did you play almost all of your games at SS this month?   Those are YOUR game reps if the club thinks you can do it.   It'll be cool if Hernaiz earns Delmarva SS to get a Bowie/Aberdeen instead of Aberdeen/Delmarva start.

I don't think it matters really if Grenier or Servideo are "better" glovemen (unless maybe we're maximizing wins at Aberdeen).   I could give one of Gunnar/Westburg a pass if they are teammates after midseason promotions. 

Hall only got 67% SS use, and Vavra 55% SS.....in the Sally.   Even Jeter heir apparent Gleyber got 90% on the way up.

(Official recognition hometown inner circle HOF Cal Ripken an exception to prove this rule)

Cronenworth-wise, I think the Padres see him as their Chris Taylor (including P in the UT profile) as they line up mano-a-mano against the Dodgers, and guessing probably they aren't trying to beat the Dodgers with dudes we could trade them now, or selling current wins for future wins.

I want a shortstop with solid overall production.  It doesn't matter what shape that takes.  I'd rather have someone with an okay glove and an .800 OPS than a very good glove and a .650.

[DrungoHazewood]

52 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ehhh, Hays had that 960 OPS in just 260 at bats.  The following year, in AA, he had a 703 OPS in 273 at bats.  Overall, Diaz has a higher AA OPS, albeit by just a few points.

Diaz also had an OBP of 50 points higher in AA, which goes back to my bigger point of why I prefer him long term.

The both hit for the same average in AA throughout their career.  Hays has the slightly higher career average in the minors overall.  
 

Diaz strikes out every 4.5 at bats.  Hays every 4.9.

Hays showed a lot more power, with a career slugging 68 points higher.  The one thing I do like about Diaz’s slugging numbers is they were much better in AA than they were in A.

I don’t feel you can trust either one because of injuries but I think Diaz’s ability to take a walk and his developing power is the overall better skill set.  Hays is probably the better defender but Diaz should provide good enough defense on the corner.  
 

But again, I think we will be lucky if either of them sticks as an everyday player.  I want to give them the chance to do it but it’s tough to trust them.

The other thing to think about is Hays could be productive enough to stick on a roster if he loses and step and slides to a corner.  If Diaz loses a step he's a DH/1B who probably isn't going to hit nearly enough to play there in the majors.  Hays' floor, unless he's hurt, is somewhere above Joey Rickard.  Diaz' floor is in the minors.

[ofan239]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I want a shortstop with solid overall production.  It doesn't matter what shape that takes.  I'd rather have someone with an okay glove and an .800 OPS than a very good glove and a .650.

And someone who could lead off and play other positions would be ideal . Cronenworth would fill both needs . It would also be nice to have someone be able to play third if Ruiz is ineffective  again 

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The other thing to think about is Hays could be productive enough to stick on a roster if he loses and step and slides to a corner.  If Diaz loses a step he's a DH/1B who probably isn't going to hit nearly enough to play there in the majors.  Hays' floor, unless he's hurt, is somewhere above Joey Rickard.  Diaz' floor is in the minors.

A step above Rickard isn’t a good player and not one really worth mentioning.  If he isn’t healthy and isnt hitting, it doesn’t really matter if his CO defense is good.  He won’t be on the roster either way.

 

[Frobby]

I’m reluctant to make any pronouncements about Diaz without having really seen him play except for maybe 5 spring training PA.    I like Hays quite a bit and think he could be an above average major league outfielder if he can stay healthy.    He does need to work on his plate discipline to reach that level and could end up being average or a little below if he doesn’t improve in that area.    Diaz has yet to wow me with anything he’s done in the minors, but I do think he’s got potential if he stays healthy.  

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m reluctant to make any pronouncements about Diaz without having really seen him play except for maybe 5 spring training PA.    I like Hays quite a bit and think he could be an above average major league outfielder if he can stay healthy.    He does need to work on his plate discipline to reach that level and could end up being average or a little below if he doesn’t improve in that area.    Diaz has yet to wow me with anything he’s done in the minors, but I do think he’s got potential if he stays healthy.  

The problem with what Diaz has or hasn’t done in the minors is that he is always hurt.  Just as he starts to get consistent at bats, he gets hurt.  He then has to rehab and get going again.

Its hard to judge him based on a lot of those results but it’s also why he’s not reliable. 

[Roll Tide]

Can anyone tell me why the thread creator thinks Cronenworth is available?

[SteveA]

23 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Can anyone tell me why the thread creator thinks Cronenworth is available?

Not the o-ring thread creator but I would assume it is because the Padres are set with young superstars at 2nd and 3rd, a veteran all star st first, and they just signed an international free agent second baseman to a not-cheap contract.  And the NL is apparently not going to have the DH this year.

All leading to the assumption that Cronenberg is "excess".

[wildcard]

46 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Not the o-ring thread creator but I would assume it is because the Padres are set with young superstars at 2nd and 3rd, a veteran all star st first, and they just signed an international free agent second baseman to a not-cheap contract.  And the NL is apparently not going to have the DH this year.

All leading to the assumption that Cronenberg is "excess".

All leading to the assumption the Cronenworth will be a cheap utility player or supersub.

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Can anyone tell me why the thread creator thinks Cronenworth is available?

More importantly (for me) is why the Padres would spend a lot to upgrade 2nd base if he was such a good option.

I get that he might be a pretty good player, but I don't want to trade prospects with higher than pretty good upside for a pretty good player unless we're competitive and have a massive hole to fill.

I think the Padres are a pretty smart org and they wouldn't be bringing in guys if they thought this kid would be an above average every day player. 

I think we can get a similarly valuable player by trading a relief pitcher at the right time of year or by simply signing a guy like Villar.

.

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Ehhh, Hays had that 960 OPS in just 260 at bats.  The following year, in AA, he had a 703 OPS in 273 at bats.  Overall, Diaz has a higher AA OPS, albeit by just a few points.

Diaz also had an OBP of 50 points higher in AA, which goes back to my bigger point of why I prefer him long term.

The both hit for the same average in AA throughout their career.  Hays has the slightly higher career average in the minors overall.  
 

Diaz strikes out every 4.5 at bats.  Hays every 4.9.

Hays showed a lot more power, with a career slugging 68 points higher.  The one thing I do like about Diaz’s slugging numbers is they were much better in AA than they were in A.

I don’t feel you can trust either one because of injuries but I think Diaz’s ability to take a walk and his developing power is the overall better skill set.  Hays is probably the better defender but Diaz should provide good enough defense on the corner.  
 

But again, I think we will be lucky if either of them sticks as an everyday player.  I want to give them the chance to do it but it’s tough to trust them.

I was waiting on that response.

Hays was hurt most of that year and the one thing Hays has shown is when he's heatthy he produces at a high level. He struggles with long lay off which is was part of his slow start to this season on my opinion.

I do agree that Diaz has a better chance to be a higher OBP player, but I don't think he's nearly as good or fast defensively as Hays and I think Hays has better game power, though that was not real evident last year in the shortened season.

I 100% agree with you that you can't count on either to stay healthy for an entire season, but that may be more of a concern for Hays now that he's struggled, even in a partial season to stay healthy for the whole season. 

Personally, I'm not as high on Diaz as Hays but I do think he's got the upside of a every day corner outfielder, especially since he seems to play better on a big stage and his appears bored at times during a long grind of a minor league season.

Right now we have both so that's good, but if I had to move one for a player, personally I'd move Diaz

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Can anyone tell me why the thread creator thinks Cronenworth is available?

Because the Padres just acquired Ha-seong Kim to a four-year contract and now he most likely does not have a starting spot with them, Because of that, they might be inclined to move him if they think he has starter value around the league. 

[Tryptamine]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Because the Padres just acquired Ha-seong Kim to a four-year contract and now he most likely does not have a starting spot with them, Because of that, they might be inclined to move him if they think he has starter value around the league. 

Even if he doesn't have a designated position, he'll still likely see 500PAs this year, especially with the notoriously fragile Pham. Unlike some in this thread have said, he certainly wont be cheap to acquire. 5 years of control for a guy who was on 4+fWAR pace last year is going to require a big impact player or top notch prospects.