Santander drawing interest

[wildcard]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There is no may be right.  It’s a fact that this is what they are doing right now.  Unless Mancini can’t play this year or something like that, Mountcastle is your LFer.

I find it interesting that you like to read between the lines on everything the manager and the organization say (like say Mullins for example) but you choose to ignore what they are doing and saying for Mountcastle.

I am not disputing that Mountcastle is schedule to play left field.  We where talking about what happens will Kjerstad is ready to join the majors.

[eddie83]

58 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That is 100% something you think.  That is not a fact.

As for Santander, either he pans out and as a Super 2 makes huge bank in arbitration or he doesn't pan out and becomes a non-tender candidate because he's a super 2.

Look at what happened to Schoop.

I’m fine with risks but money should not be an issue here. This isn’t a Nunez and Alberto situation. 
 

Yes, the Brewers let go of Schoop but they had a talented young player replace him and a contender in the Twins signed him. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I’m fine with risks but money should not be an issue here. This isn’t a Nunez and Alberto situation. 
 

Yes, the Brewers let go of Schoop but they had a talented young player replace him and a contender in the Twins signed him. 

And Schoop had 0 trade value at his arbitration price point which is why the Brewers non-tendered him.

2018 salary (arb)- $8,500,000

2019 salary (FA)- $7,500,000

[LookinUp]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

And Schoop had 0 trade value at his arbitration price point which is why the Brewers non-tendered him.

2018 salary (arb)- $8,500,000

2019 salary (FA)- $7,500,000

Yep. Definitely an argument to trade Santander sooner than later.

[eddie83]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And Schoop had 0 trade value at his arbitration price point which is why the Brewers non-tendered him.

2018 salary (arb)- $8,500,000

2019 salary (FA)- $7,500,000

Sure. 
Which comes back to 

1) How good will Santander be in a couple of years? 

2) Will the Orioles be ready to contend?

I get the logic in listening. I just think the motivation should be the return not the concern of how much he may make down the road. 

As you said you don’t draft Kjerstad 1-2, not to play. Question then revolves around how they feel about Mountcastle’s glove and Diaz. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Sure. 
Which comes back to 

1) How good will Santander be in a couple of years? 

2) Will the Orioles be ready to contend?

I get the logic in listening. I just think the motivation should be the return not the concern of how much he may make down the road. 

As you said you don’t draft Kjerstad 1-2, not to play. Question then revolves around how they feel about Mountcastle’s glove and Diaz. 

I'm confused. 

You agreed with my point about the Brewers but you again mention the O's and if they will be ready to contend.

My contention is even if the O's are ready to contend Santander won't be a good fit because of the money he will be owed.

I'm not looking to dump Santander, but a fair deal is a fair deal, I wouldn't require more than he is worth to move him.

[LookinUp]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'm confused. 

You agreed with my point about the Brewers but you again mention the O's and if they will be ready to contend.

My contention is even if the O's are ready to contend Santander won't be a good fit because of the money he will be owed.

I'm not looking to dump Santander, but a fair deal is a fair deal, I wouldn't require more than he is worth to move him.

See, I disagree with this. I think if the O's are ready to contend, you can afford him for sure.

If the plan is to contend in 2022/2023, you either keep Santander or are confident that you have a replacement. If that's not the plan, maximizing the young talent in our system should take priority.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LookinUp said:

See, I disagree with this. I think if the O's are ready to contend, you can afford him for sure.

If the plan is to contend in 2022/2023, you either keep Santander or are confident that you have a replacement. If that's not the plan, maximizing the young talent in our system should take priority.

You can, but you shouldn't.

If the money is made available I think it would be better spent elsewhere, like on trading for a pitcher.

[LookinUp]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You can, but you shouldn't.

If the money is made available I think it would be better spent elsewhere, like on trading for a pitcher.

That might be true at the time, but we don't know the roster composition and whether that's true. Again, if behind Santander you have a black hole in RF, lack of team power, lack of LH hitter, etc., you'd have given away the team's biggest need. 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm confused. 

You agreed with my point about the Brewers but you again mention the O's and if they will be ready to contend.

My contention is even if the O's are ready to contend Santander won't be a good fit because of the money he will be owed.

I'm not looking to dump Santander, but a fair deal is a fair deal, I wouldn't require more than he is worth to move him.

If the Orioles are a contender and Santander is playing well why would you not want to keep him? I know the economics of the sport are a mess right now. That said if by 2023 you can contend and have to fill a hole that was vacated by Santander being gone then you need to fill that void somehow.  If we are in a world where contending teams don’t want to pay productive players arb money then the sport is in a really bad place. The position players on this roster will be one of the cheapest in the sport the next 3-5 years. I hope they spend on at least one legit SP but who knows about that.  

The Brewers dealt for Schoop for a reason. He played terrible for them. They moved on. All I am saying is I am dealing from a position where unless I get what I what I don’t have to deal him. 

At the end of the day the argument you made makes a ton of sense. I am just saying if I’m dealing him it’s not for lottery picks. I’m not looking for a Schoop type return here. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

If the Orioles are a contender and Santander is playing well why would you not want to keep him? I know the economics of the sport are a mess right now. That said if by 2023 you can contend and have to fill a hole that was vacated by Santander being gone then you need to fill that void somehow.  If we are in a world where contending teams don’t want to pay productive players arb money then the sport is in a really bad place. The position players on this roster will be one of the cheapest in the sport the next 3-5 years. I hope they spend on at least one legit SP but who knows about that.  

The Brewers dealt for Schoop for a reason. He played terrible for them. They moved on. All I am saying is I am dealing from a position where unless I get what I what I don’t have to deal him. 

At the end of the day the argument you made makes a ton of sense. I am just saying if I’m dealing him it’s not for lottery picks. I’m not looking for a Schoop type return here. 

Because I won't want to pay him arbitration prices.

I'd rather pay the kid they took second overall league minimum.

I'm in favor of identifying and locking up key pieces longterm early.

I think we are already past that point with Santander.

[eddie83]

We should have by 2023 if things go well some combination of 

1)Adley 

2)Mountcastle 

3)Kjerstad 

4)Hays

5) Diaz

6)Hall

7)GRod

Hopefully one or 2 infielders will be ready by then. That may be a spot where they need to spend. 
 

Means would be an Arb-2 player and Hays Arb-1. All I am saying is we should be in a position to afford to pay Santander arb money in 2023. Whether he will be worth it or the team is ready to contend are the key. 

[Brooks The Great]

For me, it's pretty straightforward when it comes to the Marlins in particular. We get Bleday, we should trade Santander. Not sure if Bleday is a possibility, but I think you stand pat if he's not part of the deal. Santander should have more value at the trade deadline as long as he's healthy. There will be teams that need OF bats at the deadline.

[LookinUp]

41 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because I won't want to pay him arbitration prices.

I'd rather pay the kid they took second overall league minimum.

I'm in favor of identifying and locking up key pieces longterm early.

I think we are already past that point with Santander.

The irony of you saying the Orioles should be cheap is not lost on me.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, LookinUp said:

Now who's creating the straw man?

I believe that Santander can be a valuable contributor on a competitive Orioles team during his team control. That doesn't mean that I think he "is the future." 

You know he played a lot of games in 2019, minors and majors. 

Not “is THE future” but PART of the future.  Dont put words into my mouth to suit your argument.

You are convinced he can be part of the  future despite his career saying you are wrong but yet you don’t want to believe in the guys that are younger and have a bigger upside.  I don’t get that logic at all.