The Catching Situation

[sevastras]

9 minutes ago, LA2 said:

I disagree. Lew Ford took us to the playoffs!

Lew Ford eats puppies, while they are still alive.

[Sports Guy]

32 minutes ago, LTO's said:

It's a very interesting debate and I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. Vaughn will be an interesting case to follow. He was said to have a bat as, if not more, advanced than Adley. So far the scouting report has been pretty poor. Keith Law wrote the other day that he does not look ready. It's still early though. 

Of course he’s not ready right now.  That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be there.  That’s the point CoC makes and he’s absolutely right.  

[LTO's]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Of course he’s not ready right now.  That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be there. 

Right. Got it. Definitely makes a ton of sense

[Sports Guy]

32 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Right. Got it. Definitely makes a ton of sense

Players don’t have to learn in the minors.  They can develop in the majors.  It’s stupid to think they can’t.

Now, I personally believe he should get some time in the minors for things that go beyond development on the field And I would game the service time because it’s the rule and I would use it to my advantage.

But it’s also very possible that if he stays up all year that he is a better MLer this season because he started the year up here and took his lumps at this level.
 

So, while he may not be ready today, that doesn’t mean he won’t be more ready 2-3 months from now.

[LA2]

https://www.mlb.com/news/victor-caratini-catches-two-no-hitters-different-teams

"After completing his no-hit gem, Musgrove likened Caratini [his catcher] to a scientist, praising the backstop for his knowledge of the opposing hitters’ tendencies, as well as his ability to think multiple batters and multiple innings ahead.

"'He was calculating how many guys until we get to the top of the order, so that by the sixth, seventh inning, it would be 6-7-8, 9-1-2,' Musgrove said. 'Just doing all the math and figuring out which guys we need to be more aggressive with fastballs and sinkers and cutters to get one-pitch outs and try to save a few pitches here and there.'

"'He just did such a good job back there, and it made my job so easy to let him call the game and just try to execute pitches.'"

 

[HowAboutThat]

A couple of years ago I watched, on gameday, an agonizing at bat from one of the Rangers weakest hitters, against Kevin Gausman. Wieters was catching. Buck was managing.

Gausman threw the exact same pitch, the exact same way, to the exact same place, seven times. On the eighth exact same pitch to the exact same place, the batter hit it for a single. The Os lost.

I was furious, and at the time there was a lot of chatter about that at bat. I do not know whether the catcher was calling that pitch every time or Gausman Insisted on throwing that pitch every time and was shaking off alternative pitch choices, so I don’t know who was being stubborn, in the event anyone was being so.

But I always think of that AB when I consider the intangible dynamics between catcher and pitcher. Does the pitcher trust the catcher enough to follow his advice? Does the catcher have enough experience, dominating personality, stubbornness, or what have you, to make the pitcher follow his advice?

And is the catcher right? If the pitcher does correctly what the catcher wants, is it the right decision?

Those are very important questions and I submit that it is obvious that our current guys fail in all of them.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Philip

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

22 hours ago, sevastras said:

Lew Ford eats puppies, while they are still alive.

Wait so this song is about Lew Ford? Whoa. 

[Pushmonkey]

Catchers. Need to catch the ball. 

[Legend_Of_Joey]

0-3 with 3 strike outs by Sisco. He is now hitting  .150 with a .300 OPS. This isn’t just a slump to open the season. He hit .100 with a .370 OPS in the Spring and .175 with a .313 OPS in September of last year, ending with a .214 average for 2020.
 

He is 3-3 though on catching runners.

Didn’t get to watch the game, so not sure how he was in the 10th, but @Tony-OH made a point:

Spare me the “but win/losses don’t matter! Who cares who they play this season!?” If they don’t care, cut bait with Sisco and put in Wynns or Cuiffo. Hell, put both in. Maybe they can make the team worse. Maybe one of them brings back a D+ DSL player in July. 
 

Put in a catcher that can also, I don’t know...Catch? Figured that was the point of the position too. If you’re gonna be a back up, atleast know how to use that piece of leather that you wear on your left hand...

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

0-3 with 3 strike outs by Sisco. He is now hitting  .150 with a .300 OPS. This isn’t just a slump to open the season. He hit .100 with a .370 OPS in the Spring and .175 with a .313 OPS in September of last year, ending with a .214 average for 2020.
 

He is 3-3 though on catching runners.

Didn’t get to watch the game, so not sure how he was in the 10th, but @Tony-OH made a point:

Spare me the “but win/losses don’t matter! Who cares who they play this season!?” If they don’t care, cut bait with Sisco and put in Wynns or Cuiffo. Hell, put both in. Maybe they can make the team worse. Maybe one of them brings back a D+ DSL player in July. 
 

Put in a catcher that can also, I don’t know...Catch? Figured that was the point of the position too. If you’re gonna be a back up, atleast know how to use that piece of leather that you wear on your left hand...

Yet again you mention Sisco and not Severino who has issues this season with this whole "catching" thing.  Or maybe Severino's 67 OPS+ makes up for the lackadaisical defense?

It is just a shame, a real shame, that the O's don't have anyone in the minors at the Catcher position that could outperform these two.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yet again you mention Sisco and not Severino who has issues this season with this whole "catching" thing.  Or maybe Severino's 67 OPS+ makes up for the lackadaisical defense?

It is just a shame, a real shame, that the O's don't have anyone in the minors at the Catcher position that could outperform these two.

Simple reason I didn’t: No one has defended Severino’s play with “he needs to play more to see what he can do!” or “THIS is the season he has to show us!” Yes, Sevy isn’t the best defender either. Maybe he got hot for a month and it was the end of Spring to the first week of the season. 
 

They do, but I wouldn’t rush Maverick Handley. Or were you talking about Jordan Cannon?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

Simple reason I didn’t: No one has defended Severino’s play with “he needs to play more to see what he can do!” or “THIS is the season he has to show us!” Yes, Sevy isn’t the best defender either. Maybe he got hot for a month and it was the end of Spring to the first week of the season. 
 

They do, but I wouldn’t rush Maverick Handley. Or were you talking about Jordan Cannon?

Not many folks at all are saying we need to see more Sisco.   I gave up on his bat last season and I was one of the biggest the defense isn't important if he can hit guys.

It just comes off like you are taking every possible chance you have to dump on the backup catcher on a 100 loss team.

 

 

 

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

0-3 with 3 strike outs by Sisco. He is now hitting  .150 with a .300 OPS. This isn’t just a slump to open the season. He hit .100 with a .370 OPS in the Spring and .175 with a .313 OPS in September of last year, ending with a .214 average for 2020.
 

He is 3-3 though on catching runners.

Didn’t get to watch the game, so not sure how he was in the 10th, but @Tony-OH made a point:

Spare me the “but win/losses don’t matter! Who cares who they play this season!?” If they don’t care, cut bait with Sisco and put in Wynns or Cuiffo. Hell, put both in. Maybe they can make the team worse. Maybe one of them brings back a D+ DSL player in July. 
 

Put in a catcher that can also, I don’t know...Catch? Figured that was the point of the position too. If you’re gonna be a back up, atleast know how to use that piece of leather that you wear on your left hand...

At Camden Chat, the recap includes the info that Sisco has 10 Ks in 20 ABs and is the only guy on the team without a walk. Yes he’s 3-3 in catching stolen base attempts, but I find it really hard to believe we have nobody in the minors who is a  better overall catcher.

[Frobby]

I disagree with Tony that those wild pitches were on Sisco.  One of them in particular took a nasty hop in the opposite direction of the side Lakins yanked the pitch to.   Sisco shifted his body in the direction the ball was headed and the ball spun the other way.   Not his fault IMO.   

Based on casual observation, I feel pitch blocking is one area where Sisco is half decent.   Of course I haven’t looked at any numbers.   
 

[Beef Supreme]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I disagree with Tony that those wild pitches were on Sisco.  One of them in particular took a nasty hop in the opposite direction of the side Lakins yanked the pitch to.   Sisco shifted his body in the direction the ball was headed and the ball spun the other way.   Not his fault IMO.   

Based on casual observation, I feel pitch blocking is one area where Sisco is half decent.   Of course I haven’t looked at any numbers.   
 

That had to have been scored a Wild Pitch, not a Passed Ball. Right?