The second guessing Hyde thread.

[foxfield]

45 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

I think that the Orioles would have been better off taking 2 out of 3 games from Athletics this past weekend, instead of just salvaging the final game of the series to avoid the sweep ...... bad decision by Hyde to only win one of them.

 

o

Be careful not to bite that tongue whilst it is firmly in cheek.  

[Frobby]

Like I said earlier, I like second guessing decisions that work out. Hyde made two tonight I didn’t like.

First, he brings Fry in for the 8th and he gets two outs sandwiched by a walk, the second out coming on a pretty dominant strikeout of a RHB after the runner had advanced to 3B on a stolen base and a passed ball.   To me, Fry was looking really good.   But Hyde pulls Fry for Lakins, who’s up there throwing pretty mediocre stuff.   Luckily after a five pitch walk, Lakins was able to induce a fly out to CF, but I didn’t like the move.  

Then, Hyde brings out Valdez for the 9th after throwing 25 pitches and not looking very sharp yesterday.  It was debatable to bring him in at all, but then Valdez allows a hit, falls behind the next batter and allows another sharp hit.   Sulser is warming in the pen but Hyde doesn’t call for him.   Next hitter hits a screaming liner that by the grace of God is right at Ruiz, who almost doubles up the runner off 2B.  There is a replay review that takes a good long time, so by now Sulser is plenty warmed up.   Hyde still leaves Valdez in.   He gets two fly outs to fairly deep CF and we win.   But he did not look good except maybe 2-3 pitches the entire inning.   Couldn’t throw a low strike, fell behind almost every batter except the last one.  I literally would have yanked Valdez three different times in that inning.    But it worked out.  

One thing’s for sure, we won’t be seeing Valdez tomorrow.   Maybe not Sunday either.   

 

[Moshagge3]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Then, Hyde brings out Valdez for the 9th after throwing 25 pitches and not looking very sharp yesterday.  It was debatable to bring him in at all, but then Valdez allows a hit, falls behind the next batter and allows another sharp hit.   Sulser is warming in the pen but Hyde doesn’t call for him.  
 

Didn't Valdez have to face three hitters? It's possible that Hyde would have brought in Sulser if Valdez had loaded the bases.

[O's84]

23 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Didn't Valdez have to face three hitters? It's possible that Hyde would have brought in Sulser if Valdez had loaded the bases.

Yeah you're right.  The first eligible time he could have pulled Valdez was after the screaming line drive out to Ruiz.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Moshagge3 said:

Didn't Valdez have to face three hitters? It's possible that Hyde would have brought in Sulser if Valdez had loaded the bases.

You are right.   I thought that rule only applied to pitchers who entered a game in the middle of an inning, but I was wrong about that. I still would have pulled Valdez after the allowed the screaming liner to Ruiz for the first out.    At that point, it’s three hard hit balls in a row, Valdez is clearly struggling with his command, and Sulser is warm.   

[bobmc]

6 hours ago, Frobby said:

Like I said earlier, I like second guessing decisions that work out. Hyde made two tonight I didn’t like.

First, he brings Fry in for the 8th and he gets two outs sandwiched by a walk, the second out coming on a pretty dominant strikeout of a RHB after the runner had advanced to 3B on a stolen base and a passed ball.   To me, Fry was looking really good.   But Hyde pulls Fry for Lakins, who’s up there throwing pretty mediocre stuff.   Luckily after a five pitch walk, Lakins was able to induce a fly out to CF, but I didn’t like the move.  

Then, Hyde brings out Valdez for the 9th after throwing 25 pitches and not looking very sharp yesterday.  It was debatable to bring him in at all, but then Valdez allows a hit, falls behind the next batter and allows another sharp hit.   Sulser is warming in the pen but Hyde doesn’t call for him.   Next hitter hits a screaming liner that by the grace of God is right at Ruiz, who almost doubles up the runner off 2B.  There is a replay review that takes a good long time, so by now Sulser is plenty warmed up.   Hyde still leaves Valdez in.   He gets two fly outs to fairly deep CF and we win.   But he did not look good except maybe 2-3 pitches the entire inning.   Couldn’t throw a low strike, fell behind almost every batter except the last one.  I literally would have yanked Valdez three different times in that inning.    But it worked out.  

One thing’s for sure, we won’t be seeing Valdez tomorrow.   Maybe not Sunday either.   

 

We won't NEED to 

[Aristotelian]

Valdez is a different kind of pitcher. It is possible that 29 of his changeups is like another pitcher throwing 12 pitches. He's basically throwing batting practice out there. Agree he didn't "look good" but it is impossible to tell if that is just bias based on results. Actually he looked most dialed in on the last batter when you think he'd be gassed. He has "looked shaky" before. I'm not going to kill Hyde over this one.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Valdez is a different kind of pitcher. It is possible that 29 of his changeups is like another pitcher throwing 12 pitches. He's basically throwing batting practice out there. Agree he didn't "look good" but it is impossible to tell if that is just bias based on results. Actually he looked most dialed in on the last batter when you think he'd be gassed. He has "looked shaky" before. I'm not going to kill Hyde over this one.

I don't think that's possible.

It isn't as if he can throw 95 and decides not to.

 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think that's possible.

It isn't as if he can throw 95 and decides not to.

 

Actually he can throw 85 and chooses not to over 80% of the time.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Actually he can throw 85 and chooses not to over 80% of the time.

Now I'm not a pitching expert but from what I understand changups work because the arm action is the same as with the fastball but the grip changes the velocity of the pitch.

A changeup isn't just the pitcher not throwing as hard.

[Aristotelian]

42 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Now I'm not a pitching expert but from what I understand changups work because the arm action is the same as with the fastball but the grip changes the velocity of the pitch.

A changeup isn't just the pitcher not throwing as hard.

Sure, I'm just saying we don't know enough to say it was a bad idea in his case. Maybe they have numbers on back to backs in the Mexican League.

[HowAboutThat]

Did we get Hyde’s reasoning behind his loopy decision making? I don’t understand the logic behind pulling Fry, and bringing in Valdez was inexcusable, ESPECIALLY after Hyde specifically said he didn’t want to use him because he’d thrown a lot just the day before.

I have no faith in Scott but he would have been a more logical choice, or Sulser or Wells. 
Using your MOST tired reliever isn’t just stupid on its own, it’s a slap to the other guys who would have been better choices.

[HowAboutThat]

26 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Sure, I'm just saying we don't know enough to say it was a bad idea in his case. Maybe they have numbers on back to backs in the Mexican League.

On the contrary, we absolutely know it was a bad idea. Look at Valdez’s performance.

If that win wasn’t LUCK, nothing ever was.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

On the contrary, we absolutely know it was a bad idea. Look at Valdez’s performance.

If that win wasn’t LUCK, nothing ever was.

 

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Did we get Hyde’s reasoning behind his loopy decision making? I don’t understand the logic behind pulling Fry, and bringing in Valdez was inexcusable, ESPECIALLY after Hyde specifically said he didn’t want to use him because he’d thrown a lot just the day before.

I have no faith in Scott but he would have been a more logical choice, or Sulser or Wells. 
Using your MOST tired reliever isn’t just stupid on its own, it’s a slap to the other guys who would have been better choices.

Scott pitched back to back on the 28th/29th, no way is he pitching. You're going to go with a Rule 5 guy or the guy with 5.56 ERA last year? Probably the most logical option would be to keep Lakins in the game to keep more guys available for extras and for today's game. Pulling Valdez after a couple of hits would be a slap in the face to his best pitcher. 

I would like Hyde's explanation but I'm not going to crucify him, especially since Valdez got three outs and we won the game. 

[HowAboutThat]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

 

Scott pitched back to back on the 28th/29th, no way is he pitching. You're going to go with a Rule 5 guy or the guy with 5.56 ERA last year? Probably the most logical option would be to keep Lakins in the game to keep more guys available for extras and for today's game. Pulling Valdez after a couple of hits would be a slap in the face to his best pitcher. 

I would like Hyde's explanation but I'm not going to crucify him, especially since Valdez got three outs and we won the game. 

Yes we won, a bad decision worked well anyway, but the point is we had Sulser available, Fry could have finished the 8th and Lakins could have pitched the 9th, or any of several options. The point is that you don’t bring in a guy just threw 25 pitches the day before. Even if the other options aren’t wonderful, the one he chose is the worst. And yes we did win anyway, but it was despite the bad move and not because of it

 

Edit: I had forgotten that Scott went to days in a row, but that still leaves several other options, all of which I would actually have preferred to Scott, so it doesn’t bother me that he wasn’t available