The second guessing Hyde thread.

[dystopia]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

And Hyde made it very clear after those games that he wouldn’t have used Felix for a second inning if the O’s hadn’t taken the lead before then. 

Right, he’s going by the “save rule” (even though it’s technically not a save when he pitched the previous inning in a tie game) but home games are different. You bring your closer in in a tie game at home because he won’t get a save opportunity. Either the home team loses or walks it off. So his reasoning makes no sense to me. 

[Malike]

Like Frobby and possibly others, including myself have said previously, I'm old enough to remember when they had to shut Felix down with shoulder and knee issues last year. This team plays close games nearly every night, the people shouting that Bautista should be available every day seem to look at just the portion of the picture an inch from their noses. This is his second ML season, he's a very large man, and there is precedent to not overuse him, especially if it means punting a game in August and looking at the bigger picture of the rest of the season.

[Roll Tide]

20 minutes ago, Malike said:

Like Frobby and possibly others, including myself have said previously, I'm old enough to remember when they had to shut Felix down with shoulder and knee issues last year. This team plays close games nearly every night, the people shouting that Bautista should be available every day seem to look at just the portion of the picture an inch from their noses. This is his second ML season, he's a very large man, and there is precedent to not overuse him, especially if it means punting a game in August and looking at the bigger picture of the rest of the season.

No pitcher can go everyday and thinking so is lunacy. Webb has pitched in 9 out of 14 since he was claimed not counting last night. 

[Malike]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

No pitcher can go everyday and thinking so is lunacy. Webb has pitched in 9 out of 14 since he was claimed not counting last night. 

He's another guy who has thrown as many innings this year as he has in any year and he's only at 40'ish.

[OriolesMagic83]

Looking for responses from all those that wanted Felix to throw a second inning in every appearance possible.  I hope Felix is not out for the year.  Less of the Mountain is much better than no Mountain.  Maybe the O's could have lost Felix mid April instead of now.

[Alasdaire]

10 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Looking for responses from all those that wanted Felix to throw a second inning in every appearance possible.  I hope Felix is not out for the year.  Less of the Mountain is much better than no Mountain.  Maybe the O's could have lost Felix mid April instead of now.

"Back in my day, pitchers needed work, none of this babying BS."

[Baltimorecuse]

Back in the day the Dodgers had a shutdown closer who insisted on pitching everyday.  The interesting thing about this guy is that he was also a degreed physiologist.  He insisted that the science says a pitcher is better throwing or pitching everyday.  It made a big stir.  

[Alasdaire]

17 minutes ago, Baltimorecuse said:

Back in the day the Dodgers had a shutdown closer who insisted on pitching everyday.  The interesting thing about this guy is that he was also a degreed physiologist.  He insisted that the science says a pitcher is better throwing or pitching everyday.  It made a big stir.  

I posted this in the thread about Shohei, but when Ohtani first came over, they were treating him delicately and he still had nagging injuries. So they decided to revert to what he did in Japan and go full bore. It worked until it didn't.

[dystopia]

4 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Looking for responses from all those that wanted Felix to throw a second inning in every appearance possible.  I hope Felix is not out for the year.  Less of the Mountain is much better than no Mountain.  Maybe the O's could have lost Felix mid April instead of now.

Well, the fact is, Hyde didn’t throw him 2 innings and he still got hurt. He had him warmed up in game 2 of the TOR series but he didn’t come in, which means he’s thrown 4 straight days. Did that cause it? Who knows, probably not. You can’t predict injuries. You can be as careful as you want but a lot of times it makes no difference. And Hyde’s been as careful as he could reasonably be with Bautista this year. 

[Sports Guy]

Hyde had Bautista warning and/or pitch in the game 4 at straight days. I don’t feel he has overworked him this year but that was too much.

Maybe the elbow was a ticking time bomb and it would have happened anyway but that‘a a lot of up and down, stopping and starting and high intensity for him.

 

[dystopia]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Hyde had Bautista warning and/or pitch in the game 4 at straight days. I don’t feel he has overworked him this year but that was too much.

Maybe the elbow was a ticking time bomb and it would have happened anyway but that‘a a lot of up and down, stopping and starting and high intensity for him.

 

Hyde does this a lot where he gets relievers warmed up but doesn't bring them in the game. Buck was always good about doing that as little as possible.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Hyde does this a lot where he gets relievers warmed up but doesn't bring them in the game. Buck was always good about doing that as little as possible.

I think the Buck stuff is more legend than truth. He did the same stuff. Every manager does. I don’t feel Hyde does it more than anyone else.

And I’m not even saying this led to the injury for Bautista but he has laid off of him a lot this year in circumstances like this but not last night. I wonder why?  Why not just use Cano, who you already had warmed up earlier? 
 

But again, the human body is just not meant to throw a baseball the way Bautista throws it. This isn’t exactly surprising.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Sports Guy

[dystopia]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I think the Buck stuff is more legend than truth. He did the same stuff. Every manager does. I don’t feel Hyde does it more than anyone else.

And I’m not even saying this led to the injury for Bautista but he has laid off of him a lot this year in circumstances like this but not last night. I wonder why?  Why not just use Cano, who you already had warmed up earlier? 
 

But again, the human body is just not meant to throw a baseball the way Bautista throws it. This isn’t exactly surprising.

Yeah the Cano thing was weird. Why did he get him up only to leave Fuji in? I feel like Buck didn't do that type of thing as much. 

It seems like it would be better to have relievers go two innings and then get a rest the following day, then to have them get warmed up and throw 10 pitches to get through an inning and then do the same thing the following day. None of us are experts though; if the people involved in this professionally can't keep pitchers healthy it's foolish to think that we would know the solutions. 

All this proves is that you can never have enough pitching and the more pitching depth you have the better off you'll be as a team. Elias seems to understand this and has stacked pitching depth. We were able to cover for Givens and Tate being gone all year effectively and if Bautista goes down for an extended period (seems likely) then hopefully DL Hall, McDermott, or another can take up the slack and get us through September. 

[Sports Guy]

We will see if we can cover Bautista. He’s the MVP of the team. 
 

The 10th inning stuff goes away in the playoffs but having him for 4-6 outs in October was a huge advantage. Now we aren’t going to have that. 

[banks703]

This silliness of blaming whatever injury Felix sustained last night on Hyde is just that ..silly

He was off balance and slipped with his front foot. Looks like his arm got out a little in front of him. That is exactly how I tore my bicep tendon playing friggin softball a dozen or so years back. Wet outfield, came up throwing, my front foot slid a little bit and torqued my arm enough to hyperextend my elbow.

Should we blame the grounds crew for his slip? Kinda silly if you ask me to blame anyone. It’s baseball. Humans aren’t supposed to throw a ball overhand and certainly not as violently as Felix.

We can see him wiggling his fingers after the pitch. That almost certainly means a flexor tendon. If there’s a flexor tendon issue we should expect a UCL issue. Awful for Felix and the team. I hope I’m wrong but that’s what it looks like after watching the replay. I’ll be shocked if there’s no structural damage.