Don't waste the Adley, Grayson and DL years.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Realistically, I do not think the team can contend in 2022.   Finishing around .500 is possible.   Under those circumstances, I would not want to hold on to Mancini just to have him for one more season.  I’d rather trade him for players who can help us later.   The other players wildcard mentions are under control for a longer period of time so I don’t think we need to trade any of them unless we are really bowled over with an offer.   

I really like Mancini but it’s just not worth it to hold onto him if all we are getting is one season after this one.   
 

So you don't think that Elias is as good as Duquette?  You don't think if Elias decided he wanted to contend next year he could?  I think he could.

[HowAboutThat]

49 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

+1, the easiest way to waste a year is to give up a year of team control for no particular reason. 

That’s an excellent way of putting it.

however, it is also foolish to delay a debut for too long. I think there will be enough changes to FA in the new CBA that service time issues will become moot. For instance, from draft day to FA day is a flat 7 years for college grads and 9 years for HS grads or something similar.

With that in mind, bring them up whenever they are ready for MLB competition.

[HowAboutThat]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

So you don't think that Elias is as good as Duquette?  You don't think if Elias decided he wanted to contend next year he could?  I think he could.

Elias is not competing yet. He’s establishing his infrastructure, and wins be damned. When he flips the switch we will know it.

And Being better than Dan is a low bar that Mike surpassed the day he was hired.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

Elias is not competing yet. He’s establishing his infrastructure, and wins be damned. When he flips the switch we will know it.

And Being better than Dan is a low bar that Mike surpassed the day he was hired.

I said next year.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

So you don't think that Elias is as good as Duquette?  You don't think if Elias decided he wanted to contend next year he could?  I think he could.

This team is not as good as the 2011 Orioles.   They’re on pace to win 55 games.   They could improve by 24 games like the 2012 Orioles did and still be under .500.   Let’s also not forget that the 2012 Orioles — loved ‘em — had a very fluky W-L record driven by one-run wins and extra inning wins.    Their Pythagorean record was 82-80.     The odds of a team exceeding its Pythagorean record by that much are extremely small.   I’m certainly not counting on that scenario recurring for the O’s any time soon.   

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Philip said:

Elias is not competing yet. He’s establishing his infrastructure, and wins be damned. When he flips the switch we will know it.

And Being better than Dan is a low bar that Mike surpassed the day he was hired.

Which he easily could be doing while also putting a far better team on the field.

[LTO's]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Which he easily could be doing while also putting a far better team on the field.

How? Be specific and name actual players. I'd consider far better to be around a .500 team. Would love to hear how that would've been achieved this year. 

[wildcard]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This team is not as good as the 2011 Orioles.   They’re on pace to win 55 games.   They could improve by 24 games like the 2012 Orioles did and still be under .500.   Let’s also not forget that the 2012 Orioles — loved ‘em — had a very fluky W-L record driven by one-run wins and extra inning wins.    Their Pythagorean record was 82-80.     The odds of a team exceeding its Pythagorean record by that much are extremely small.   I’m certainly not counting on that scenario recurring for the O’s any time soon.   

i think we have to consider why this team is bad.   Pitching, but there is a ton of pitching coming next year.   Catching, but  Adley compared to Severino is like comparing filet mignon to beef jerky.   The offense could improve greatly if they add  Adley and two free agent infielders.  Plus a rookie 2nd baseman that can get on base.

Right now the offense is Mullins, Mancini, Santander, Mountcastle, Hays sometimes Stewart or Galvis and then go fish.  

As far as Mancini, if they can sign him to a two year contract with an option and a buyout they could have him for two or three years.   And they can trade him when they have someone good enough to replace him if that ever happens.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, LTO's said:

How? Be specific and name actual players. I'd consider far better to be around a .500 team. Would love to hear how that would've been achieved this year. 

You can do whatever research you want but there are countless combos of FAs, trades, etc...that could have been made to make this team better AND not screw things up long term.  Eat some money, spend money, etc....With the way teams were losing money and wanting to save, you had the chance this past offseason to take advantage of it.  

You can also look to take a good risk on a guy like Alex Wood.  Solid career when he has been healthy.  Much better gamble than Harvey.  Both are obviously risks in terms of staying healthy but Wood is a better bet imo.  Now, I am not saying I sat here and said we should sign him.  I am just saying that there were better risks out there but the team didn't want to spend money.

When you are putting a team on the field that is pretty bad, its not hard to make it better if you want to.  The O's don't want to, thats obvious by both their words and their actions.

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

You can do whatever research you want but there are countless combos of FAs, trades, etc...that could have been made to make this team better AND not screw things up long term.  Eat some money, spend money, etc....With the way teams were losing money and wanting to save, you had the chance this past offseason to take advantage of it.  

You can also look to take a good risk on a guy like Alex Wood.  Solid career when he has been healthy.  Much better gamble than Harvey.  Both are obviously risks in terms of staying healthy but Wood is a better bet imo.  Now, I am not saying I sat here and said we should sign him.  I am just saying that there were better risks out there but the team didn't want to spend money.

When you are putting a team on the field that is pretty bad, its not hard to make it better if you want to.  The O's don't want to, thats obvious by both their words and their actions.

 

If the team is going to be sub-.500 in any event, I’d just as soon save as much money as possible and draft as high as possible    

 

 

[Just Regular]

I don't want to put limits on how good the early Adley teams can be, or that Elias can even guess the 2022 roster's upside until Rodriguez, Hall, Bradish and Baumann's ability to make it ~100 innings this year or not becomes known.

By the World Series we'll see if that quartet and Means are a group you can hope for 700 IP from next year.    I believe Adley will be whatever he'll be but Three Months Adley has a decent edge on Four Weeks Adley entering next season.    The circus next Spring if the club really does try to set Adley on 2022-2028 instead of 2021-2027 will be something, but I don't think Elias is going to be that adversarial with his franchise player.   We'll see.

 

[vab]

29 minutes ago, Frobby said:

If the team is going to be sub-.500 in any event, I’d just as soon save as much money as possible and draft as high as possible    

 

 

Agreed and that's obviously the plan. No need to deviate for 10-15 more meaningless (in the long run) wins this year or next. I know it's a real drag but if they're going to go this way they need to go all the way with it. 

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Which he easily could be doing while also putting a far better team on the field.

I don’t disagree with that, and it is a constant source of annoyance that he seems to be actively sabotaging the team and deliberately refusing the opportunity to increase our wins

Edited June 15, 2021 by Philip

[Sports Guy]

38 minutes ago, Frobby said:

If the team is going to be sub-.500 in any event, I’d just as soon save as much money as possible and draft as high as possible    

 

 

Yes because you have a false belief that they are pocketing money and plan to spend it later.  It’s crazy to think that any team is doing that, especially this one.

And the draft is a complete crapshoot with very little differences in career WAR once you get past the first few picks.  
 

It’s really astonishing to me that anyone is still fine with them tanking and saying, who cares about winning.  I really don’t get that mentality at all.  The idea that they somehow have to be bad to do everything they should be doing is just wrong.

[HowAboutThat]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

It’s really astonishing to me that anyone is still fine with them tanking and saying, who cares about winning.  I really don’t get that mentality at all.  The idea that they somehow have to be bad to do everything they should be doing is just wrong.

I’m not fine with it, I think it’s awful, I don’t know why Franco is here. They could call up Jones or Bannon or almost anybody, say,” how’d you like to play third base?” pay them league minimum and let them take their lumps.

The outfield is pretty good, catching is still terrible as long as Severino is here, but moving Sisco( though for the wrong reasons) was good.

But why Urias, Valaika? Wilkerson? I love Wilk, but I would rather love him as a little used utility player than as a starting second baseman. And those are easy moves to make that would be essentially free, because there’s no extra cost to make them.

why are the pitching moves so slow in coming?And so on.

There is no excuse for not making moves to improve the team unless you actively do not want to improve the team. Especially move that can be made without cost.