Moves I would like to see between now and July 31

[Redskins Rick]

21 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

There is absolutely zero chance that happens.  

Im totally with you on this. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

He's a proven top defensive SS who's hit 15 homers twice in the majors and may have seen the light offensively.  He's certainly a better bet to be a quality major league starter than Leyba - a guy you were screaming for the O's to give a chance.  

If we're honest, we admit Trey has very little trade value.  Right?  

 

Why would Mancini have such little trade value?

Also, if all he could do is get a failed player like Arcia, I would rather keep him.

[Hank Scorpio]

38 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why would Mancini have such little trade value?

Also, if all he could do is get a failed player like Arcia, I would rather keep him.

I assume his assertion is because Mancini is about to get expensive... but he has been a pretty productive force offensively (last week or so notwithstanding.) 

It's really a shame Elias didn't deal Santander this offseason. 

[Ruzious]

36 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why would Mancini have such little trade value?

Also, if all he could do is get a failed player like Arcia, I would rather keep him.

He's not a failed player.  He OPS'd .734 last year and is regarded as one of the better defensive SS's in baseball.  He got behind 2 very good young players in Milwaukee, so they traded him to Atlanta, but he's not gonna beat out Swanson or Albies.  I'm not saying he's a star, but OPSing .926 in AAA is a very good sign.  If he jjust OPS's what he did last year in the Majors, he's a perfectly fine starting SS - which is more valuable than a poor fielding 1B/Corner OFer who's 3 years older, who's in recovery from cancer, slumping badly at the moment, and making 4.6 million compared to 2 million.        

[Ruzious]

3 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I assume his assertion is because Mancini is about to get expensive... but he has been a pretty productive force offensively (last week or so notwithstanding.) 

 

Not to mention, the O's have limited bargaining power, because everyone assumes the O's will not pay Mancini next year.  

[spiritof66]

28 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

He's not a failed player.  He OPS'd .734 last year and is regarded as one of the better defensive SS's in baseball.  He got behind 2 very good young players in Milwaukee, so they traded him to Atlanta, but he's not gonna beat out Swanson or Albies.  I'm not saying he's a star, but OPSing .926 in AAA is a very good sign.  If he jjust OPS's what he did last year in the Majors, he's a perfectly fine starting SS - which is more valuable than a poor fielding 1B/Corner OFer who's 3 years older, who's in recovery from cancer, slumping badly at the moment, and making 4.6 million compared to 2 million.        

 

[spiritof66]

27 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Not to mention, the O's have limited bargaining power, because everyone assumes the O's will not pay Mancini next year.  

I agree that right now Mancini's trade value is pretty low for reasons that have been mentioned (though I doubt his current salary, prorated for the remaining portion of the season, would be a major obstacle for most teams who otherwise wanted him to play 1B). I'm not so sure, though, that the Orioles won't pay Trey next year (or afterwards) if they don't get a decent offer for him, or that other GMs will scale back their offers on that assumption. Maybe you're right about that. But at some point a team, even one as hellbent on not spending and as disinterested in winning as the Orioles, has to spend a little to put a team on the field -- how much remains to be seen after there is (or, I guess, there isn't) a new CBA. The asinine way in which the Orioles have approached their MLB payroll can't continue indefinitely.

What do you think rival GMs think about the Braves' plans for Arcia if he's not moved? Who's going to pay a guy like him in arbitration or free agency? Are the Braves even going to keep him on the 40-man? I think his only value is as a stopgap for a team with a real need for a maybe-slightly-above-replacement-level SS that they they can't fill from their own system. 

 

[Sports Guy]

51 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

He's not a failed player.  He OPS'd .734 last year and is regarded as one of the better defensive SS's in baseball.  He got behind 2 very good young players in Milwaukee, so they traded him to Atlanta, but he's not gonna beat out Swanson or Albies.  I'm not saying he's a star, but OPSing .926 in AAA is a very good sign.  If he jjust OPS's what he did last year in the Majors, he's a perfectly fine starting SS - which is more valuable than a poor fielding 1B/Corner OFer who's 3 years older, who's in recovery from cancer, slumping badly at the moment, and making 4.6 million compared to 2 million.        

First of all, this is awful description of Mancini.

Second of all, we can usually count on your to totally overrate a Braves player.

If he was as good as you think and with teams always needing above average SS, Arcia wouldn’t be toiling away in AAA.  You mentioned his OPS last year but it was in less than 200 PA.  His career OPS is 677.  His career BA is in the 240s and his career OBP  is 300. He also has very little power.  His career fWAR, which is over 1700 at bats and over 500 games is a total of .9.   I don’t know what other fielding stats say about him but UZR and UZR/150 has him around average to slightly below average.

BBR has his total career WAR at -1.7 And his defensive WAR at -4.8.

So, I’m not sure where you are getting that he is some great defensive SS and his offensive numbers are poor.

As for what he is doing in AAA at age 26…who cares?  That’s meaningless.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

Not to mention, the O's have limited bargaining power, because everyone assumes the O's will not pay Mancini next year.  

Connolly mentions in this article that article is that he is getting the indication that the Os will keep all 4 of these guys.  I don’t think they will care about paying Trey.  Elias has been pretty consistent on his thoughts about Mancini.  Not saying he won’t trade him but I don’t think his salary will matter to the team next year either, at least to the point where they are going to allow it to hurt his value and they just go with that.

[Aristotelian]

No way Rutschman is called up by July 31. Would be surprised if we see him on opening day 2022. 

I would DFA Franco and trade Mancini to the highest bidder. Hold onto Santander to give him a chance to re-establish trade value. I doubt Indians or anyone gives us anything of value for him right now. 

I think Jones should get a chance but not sure where. 

Bring up Diaz for Mancini and Jones for Franco. Give Kevin Smith a chance at some point. Do something with Mattson, either promote or DFA. 

[Ruzious]

51 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

First of all, this is awful description of Mancini.

Second of all, we can usually count on your to totally overrate a Braves player.

If he was as good as you think and with teams always needing above average SS, Arcia wouldn’t be toiling away in AAA.  You mentioned his OPS last year but it was in less than 200 PA.  His career OPS is 677.  His career BA is in the 240s and his career OBP  is 300. He also has very little power.  His career fWAR, which is over 1700 at bats and over 500 games is a total of .9.   I don’t know what other fielding stats say about him but UZR and UZR/150 has him around average to slightly below average.

BBR has his total career WAR at -1.7 And his defensive WAR at -4.8.

So, I’m not sure where you are getting that he is some great defensive SS and his offensive numbers are poor.

As for what he is doing in AAA at age 26…who cares?  That’s meaningless.

I'm not interested in making a career of responding to your posts - particularly after the cheap shot above and your overall charming style of posting - it ain't worth another minute of my time.  Here's a link to an article that mostly focuses on Arcia - written just before he was traded to the Braves - for other people to read, if they choose to.  Milwaukee Brewers 2021 preview by position: Shortstop - Brew Crew Ball  

[spiritof66]

3 hours ago, Philip said:

I dislike extensions in general but Trey is not a candidate for an extension under any circumstance. 
Trade him now or at peak value. But trade him.

I have a somewhat different take on the decision to trade Trey, but I think I understand this point of view.

One question. From what little I know, Trey is the unquestioned veteran leader of this team. The only other guy I've seen mentioned is Galvis, and his future with the Orioles is pretty limited. (The other veterans are Matt Harvey, Severino, Franco, Plutko and The Crusher. No leadership potential there.)

Is the loss of Trey's leadership something that you -- plural you, those who are calling for Trey to be traded this season -- take into account in calling for is trade? Do you think the whole leadership/clubhouse morale thing is a fiction? That it's overrated? That whatever importance it has generally, it means little or nothing for a losing team? That whatever leadership qualities Trey has can easily replaced by guys like Mullins or Hays or Means or Fry or others? Or by veterans to be acquired within the next season or so? 

I haven't seen this discussed recently in connection with Trey. While I spent two or three decades thinking this quality didn't mean much in MLB, I've changed my mind in recent years.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

I'm not interested in making a career of responding to your posts - particularly after the cheap shot above and your overall charming style of posting - it ain't worth another minute of my time.  Here's a link to an article that mostly focuses on Arcia - written just before he was traded to the Braves - for other people to read, if they choose to.  Milwaukee Brewers 2021 preview by position: Shortstop - Brew Crew Ball  

Not sure what the cheap shot is.  You do overrate Braves players.

That article certainly doesn't support your assertion that he is one of the best defensive SS in the game and the offensive improvements are in a SSS and don't mean a whole lot.

If he is so good, why isn't he in the majors?  Its not like teams are just loaded with above average defensive SS who can hit at an above average rate.  He was traded for 2 players, neither of whom have had any or good ML success and one was 26 and one was 27.

In other words, he wasn't looked at as a player anyone really wanted or one that carried any value.  And now you think he can be dealt straight for a player that has a WAR this year than Arcia has in his entire career?  You really that makes sense?  You think that's a trade the Os should do.

If they want to target Arcia, they can get him for a less than Mancini.

[Ruzious]

Did somebody really just say something?  

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Did somebody really just say something?  

Yes, someone who is showing that your suggestion is pretty foolish.  You can't really dispute it because its factual, so you want to play some childish, woe is me game.