The current 1-14 stretch is far worse than the prior 0-14

[Frobby]

During the 0-14 stretch, the team was outscored 80-48.   We lost them alL, but many were close: 3 one-run losses, four two-run losses, three three-run losses.  Only two losses were by more than 5 runs.

In the current 1-14 streak, we’ve been outscored 112-44.    Six of the losses were by more than 5 runs, including 14-1, 13-0, 9-0, 10-2, 10-3 and 7-1.    In addition to those six, the team has allowed 7 runs or more four other times    The pitching and defense have just been brutal.    

 

 

[Tony-OH]

The team's pitching has become a joke and unless Elias is ok with watching this team break records for futility, he's going to have to start trying to do some things to make them respectable. There has to be better options in not only our AAA, but also other teams. I'm sure teams are hoarding pitching because of the inning concerns, but he can't keep running these guys out there or we are looking at unheard of records of futility by this team.

We all understand what is going on with the rebuild, but this team isn't even competing anymore. 

 

[Sports Guy]

The idea that we can even discuss this as a thread is an embarrassment

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The team's pitching has become a joke and unless Elias is ok with watching this team break records for futility, he's going to have top start trying to some things to make them respectable. There has to be better options in not only our AAA, but also other teams. I'm sure teams are hoarding pitching because of the inning concerns, but he can't keep running these guys out there or we are looking at unheard of records of futility by this team.

We all understand what is going on with the rebuild, but this team isn't even competing anymore. 

 

He seems to be fine with it.  Maybe, like Frobby, he isn't watching anymore?

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The team's pitching has become a joke and unless Elias is ok with watching this team break records for futility, he's going to have top start trying to some things to make them respectable. There has to be better options in not only our AAA, but also other teams. I'm sure teams are hoarding pitching because of the inning concerns, but he can't keep running these guys out there or we are looking at unheard of records of futility by this team.

We all understand what is going on with the rebuild, but this team isn't even competing anymore. 

 

Elias built a rotation consisting of the 2020 AAA rotation that didn’t have a season and reclamation projects.
 

The infield defense we knew would have issues, Severino is a poor defender and now with Hays and Santander hurting the corner OF is not at good as should be. 
 

Means getting hurt you can at predict but stuff happens. I see no answers. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Elias built a rotation consisting of the 2020 AAA rotation that didn’t have a season and reclamation projects.
 

The infield defense we knew would have issues, Severino is a poor defender and now with Hays and Santander hurting the corner OF is not at good as should be. 
 

Means getting hurt you can at predict but stuff happens. I see no answers. 

Not sure what you mean here?

Did you mean you can't predict Means getting hurt?  He's had the same shoulder fatigue issue in the past.

[eddie83]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not sure what you mean here?

Did you mean you can't predict Means getting hurt?  He's had the same shoulder fatigue issue in the past.

My point is as you know injuries are a part of the sport. You have to expect things to go wrong. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

My point is as you know injuries are a part of the sport. You have to expect things to go wrong. 

Ah, OK.  Sorry you wording was just a bit hard for me to decipher.

[jabba72]

Our Pythagorean says we should be 27-48 which is a 4 game improvement over our 23-52 record. 

[interloper]

To Elias' defense, I certainly didn't expect ALL of Kremer, Akin, and Lowther to be THIS bad. Even Harvey, who I expected to go south, I didn't expect him to go south that quickly and that hard. 

Like we're at the point of just hoping for mid-5 ERAs out of these guys and they aren't really even managing that. I don't think anyone really predicted this level of futility from this group of starting pitchers. 

[jabba72]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

The team's pitching has become a joke and unless Elias is ok with watching this team break records for futility, he's going to have to start trying to do some things to make them respectable. There has to be better options in not only our AAA, but also other teams. I'm sure teams are hoarding pitching because of the inning concerns, but he can't keep running these guys out there or we are looking at unheard of records of futility by this team.

We all understand what is going on with the rebuild, but this team isn't even competing anymore. 

 

Lowther only went 4 innings with 3 BB and 5 ER, in Norfolk last night to raise his ERA there to 5.18. He is currently the next man up there as far as I can tell.  Kevin Smith and Kyle Bradish could possible get call ups next year, but Elias probably want to see them have success in Norfolk this season. 

[eddie83]

31 minutes ago, interloper said:

To Elias' defense, I certainly didn't expect ALL of Kremer, Akin, and Lowther to be THIS bad. Even Harvey, who I expected to go south, I didn't expect him to go south that quickly and that hard. 

Like we're at the point of just hoping for mid-5 ERAs out of these guys and they aren't really even managing that. I don't think anyone really predicted this level of futility from this group of starting pitchers. 

 I agree with this. It’s worse then I thought it would be as well.
 

That said things happen and this rotation outside of Means has zero proven commodities.  

[SteveA]

36 minutes ago, interloper said:

To Elias' defense, I certainly didn't expect ALL of Kremer, Akin, and Lowther to be THIS bad. Even Harvey, who I expected to go south, I didn't expect him to go south that quickly and that hard. 

Like we're at the point of just hoping for mid-5 ERAs out of these guys and they aren't really even managing that. I don't think anyone really predicted this level of futility from this group of starting pitchers. 

That may be to Elias's defense in one way, but what does it say about our pitcher development?

I felt under previous regimes that we didn't always develop pitchers very well.   Seeing Arrieta and others leave our organization and have success.   Hearing Britton talk about how different the information and data he got from the Yankees was than with the Orioles.  Seeing guys with big arms that never "got it" (Cabrera, Riley, Matusz, etc).

One thing I felt for sure was that with Elias/Holt, THAT would improve.   All the most modern techniques, tools, analysis, and teaching would be put in place.   Spin rates and angles of delivery and release points would all be scientifically analyzed and it would help pitchers get the maximum out of whatever talent they had.   There were plenty of examples of pitchers going to Houston in the recent seasons and improving.   If nothing else, I felt that poor pitcher development was something the Orioles put in the rear view mirror in November 2018 when they hired Elias.

So when this batch of young pitchers comes up and falls completely flat on their face, it concerns me VERY much.   

I was never sure Elias would succeed.  I worried we wouldn't spend the money.   I worried that it would take years for the international changes to take effect.   I worried that the Astros didn't have a good record of drafting pitching talent.   But the one thing I didn't worry about was getting the most out of our pitchers.   If Kremer or Akin had an upside as a 4th/5th starter, or a Petit-style long man, I was really confident that we'd get that much out of them.   The track record and pedigree of the guys we brought in made me pretty confident that at least pitcher development wasn't a problem anymore.

Seeing these guys fail so miserably is a huge disappointment and casts a big shadow over the future to me.

[vab]

I have been all for the rebuild plan and understood it was going to be rough but we may be at the point now where the pitching is so bad it's going to start effecting even how the position player prospects are performing. I mean, it's only human nature to lose some focus when you're down 6-0 before you even get the 2nd out of the game. Evaluating these prospects is the only thing that is really important this year so I hope Elias&Co. are keeping an eye on that and will do what's necessary to at least stay marginally competitive in some of these games. 

[LTO's]

5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

but what does it say about our pitcher development?

I mean most scouts seriously doubted any of those guys would be anything more than a 5 and dive/swingman piece. It's not exactly surprising to see them get lit up against great offenses like they have. The current wisdom on this board is that any prospect close to the big leagues should be up and learning here. Well....here you go. All of those guys besides maybe Akin should be in AAA getting starts on a regular basis. They are not ready yet and I don't see the purpose of having them get shelled every start.