New article evaluates the Duquette 2018 trades and suggest we lost most all the trades badly.

[ThomasTomasz]

23 hours ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

That's my problem with Top 100 Lists - they're pretty arbitrary and more about who is "close" to the majors. You are correct - they weren't Top 100 guys per the prospect lists. But, I think everyone in the know had them pegged as super valuable guys at the time.

I remembering hearing the O's wanted Dustin May and Josiah Gray at the time - but that the Dodgers were super high on them and wouldn't move them. Teams are working with far more data and information than whatever blogger is putting together MLB.com's prospect list.

DD didn't really have much to trade; there is a reason that team only won 47 games. Looking back, the Machado return admittedly has been disappointing - but also I think it is a pipe dream to think that they could have gotten substantially more. The Nats just had to trade a HOF pitcher, still in peak form, just started the All-Star game -- and a super-versatile, perennial all-star with team control to get the Dodgers top two prospects. The O's weren't getting that for a couple months of Manny.

Funny enough some have said the Nats should have gotten more in return but, wait for it, took less because LAD is covering their remainder of salary this year and paying the final $15m deferred payment for Scherzer in 2027.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:27 AM, Gurgi said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/look-back-at-orioles-trade-deadline-2018?game_pk=633078

But ample time has passed now to warrant reflection. Of the five regulars the Orioles dealt at the time, only one remains with the team to which he was traded. And of the 15 players (14 prospects) Baltimore acquired, more than half are no longer with the organization. Most of the others have reached the Majors or are close to doing so.

With that as a backdrop, let’s look back on those deals one by one:

 

This is supposedly an article evaluating those trades, but despite the fact they were all driven by money and contracts (especially soon-to-expire contracts) the author only mentions contracts in passing in the intro and never brings up money.  It's a piece written mostly from the perspective of 1965, one that 50 people on this site could have written in 30 minutes only with more detail and context.  

[Bahama O's Fan]

How are these looking now? Tate for Britton seems to be a win. Schoop/Villar seems to be a win or at least a wash. I'm thinking now that Kremer will give us more WAR than Manny gave the Dodgers. The Gausman one I didn't like the most then and still don't like now. Should have extended him.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

The Gausman one I didn't like the most then and still don't like now. Should have extended him.

I think that's easy to say in retrospect, but remember the circumstances:

- The Orioles were crashing

- He was going to be a free agent the following year (or the year after?) and may not have been interested in extending

- The Braves waived him, then the Reds claimed him but declined to resign him at the end of the year

It's not like the O's didn't try to resign 2020-present Gausman.  They traded a guy three orgs couldn't fix who was on an expiring deal, and they were heading into a big rebuild.

Also, the 2018 Orioles didn't have the coaching, scouting and analytics they do now.  They weren't turning Dean Kremers and Kyle Bradishes into solid MLB pitchers, they were scratching their heads about why Dylan Bundy had a 5.00 ERA.

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by DrungoHazewood

[DrungoHazewood]

Speaking of Dylan Bundy... unfortunately for him, I think he's cooked.  Fastball sitting at 89 and his strikeout rate is straight out of 1986.  4.78 ERA in the year of the humidor.

[oldfan]

4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Speaking of Dylan Bundy... unfortunately for him, I think he's cooked.  Fastball sitting at 89 and his strikeout rate is straight out of 1986.  4.78 ERA in the year of the humidor.

Will be one of those guys you say, "what could have been".

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Speaking of Dylan Bundy... unfortunately for him, I think he's cooked.  Fastball sitting at 89 and his strikeout rate is straight out of 1986.  4.78 ERA in the year of the humidor.

Such a shame.  Quality person and competitor, but his body let him down.  

[ThomasTomasz]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Such a shame.  Quality person and competitor, but his body let him down.  

I always thought it was crazy that Bundy, during his long toss while warming up, would essentially go to the right field corner while launching the ball basically back to the wall door for the bullpen.  He would make at least 10 throws at this distance, as well as throws out, and throws back.  

I wonder how much his arm is shot from doing things like that.  To my recollection, I’ve never seen another pitcher make tosses that long before starting a game.  Only a handful of relievers actually get that kind of distance during their pre-game tosses too.  

[ThomasTomasz]

9 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think that's easy to say in retrospect, but remember the circumstances:

- The Orioles were crashing

- He was going to be a free agent the following year (or the year after?) and may not have been interested in extending

- The Braves waived him, then the Reds claimed him but declined to resign him at the end of the year

It's not like the O's didn't try to resign 2020-present Gausman.  They traded a guy three orgs couldn't fix who was on an expiring deal, and they were heading into a big rebuild.

Also, the 2018 Orioles didn't have the coaching, scouting and analytics they do now.  They weren't turning Dean Kremers and Kyle Bradishes into solid MLB pitchers, they were scratching their heads about why Dylan Bundy had a 5.00 ERA.

 

Dodgers got a head start on Kremer and his slider.  But I agree with the point.  

We’re now an organization that has the chance to fix guys like Gausman, instead of being the ones to cause it.  

[SilverRocket]

11 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

How are these looking now? Tate for Britton seems to be a win. Schoop/Villar seems to be a win or at least a wash. I'm thinking now that Kremer will give us more WAR than Manny gave the Dodgers. The Gausman one I didn't like the most then and still don't like now. Should have extended him.

The Gausman trade would've looked a lot better if we kept Evan Phillips and he still managed to turn into who he is today.

[dystopia]

10 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

I always thought it was crazy that Bundy, during his long toss while warming up, would essentially go to the right field corner while launching the ball basically back to the wall door for the bullpen.  He would make at least 10 throws at this distance, as well as throws out, and throws back.  

I wonder how much his arm is shot from doing things like that.  To my recollection, I’ve never seen another pitcher make tosses that long before starting a game.  Only a handful of relievers actually get that kind of distance during their pre-game tosses too.  

If I remember right this was questioned pretty vigorously at the time, but he firmly believed in it. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

7 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

I always thought it was crazy that Bundy, during his long toss while warming up, would essentially go to the right field corner while launching the ball basically back to the wall door for the bullpen.  He would make at least 10 throws at this distance, as well as throws out, and throws back.  

I wonder how much his arm is shot from doing things like that.  To my recollection, I’ve never seen another pitcher make tosses that long before starting a game.  Only a handful of relievers actually get that kind of distance during their pre-game tosses too.  

I agree Bundy’s work ethic may have been a bit too much and played a part in all his injury troubles. 

Bundy was able to make himself the best high school prospect in the country, but he threw too much at a young age causing long term arm problems. 

[Can_of_corn]

15 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

I always thought it was crazy that Bundy, during his long toss while warming up, would essentially go to the right field corner while launching the ball basically back to the wall door for the bullpen.  He would make at least 10 throws at this distance, as well as throws out, and throws back.  

I wonder how much his arm is shot from doing things like that.  To my recollection, I’ve never seen another pitcher make tosses that long before starting a game.  Only a handful of relievers actually get that kind of distance during their pre-game tosses too.  

Quote

As Kevin Kaduk of Big League Stew estimates, the right-hander is playing 450- to 475-foot long toss, a routine he learned at Alan Jaeger’s long-toss camp when he was 10 years old.

The quote is from a different source than the video.

[Can_of_corn]

Here is Grayson playing long toss over a lake.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/orioles/orioles-prospect-grayson-rodriguez-clears-lake-during-insane-long-toss-session

[dystopia]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Here is Grayson playing long toss over a lake.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/orioles/orioles-prospect-grayson-rodriguez-clears-lake-during-insane-long-toss-session

Greg Maddux and King Felix endorsed long tossing.

 

https://betterpitching.com/the-long-toss-debate-part-ii-the-benefits/