I kind of enjoyed the Phillies series

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Right. Results matter and luck is part of that but it comes down to talent evaluation in the end.  Tampa Bay isn't lucky. They're good.  All front offices aren't created equal where the only differences are budget and luck.  We don't know yet about Elias and his team but there are certainly signs in amateur acquisitions that they might be pretty good.  

The skepticism and negativity is a pretty lazy way to evaluate what's going on. You'll believe it when you see Results at the ML level. Hindsight is 20/20.  Why don't we all take a break and come back in 5 years and predict the past.  In the meantime it's just a big yawn.

See this is the heart of the disagreement.  I think blindly accepting what management tells you is lazy.

I think being critical, questioning leadership is inherently less lazy.

And with that, good night.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

See this is the heart of the disagreement.  I think blindly accepting what management tells you is lazy.

I think being critical, questioning leadership is inherently less lazy.

And with that, good night.

You don't question them. You just see the negative in every situation.  Big difference.  There is a balance. I might be on the Elias bandwagon side of the spectrum but you come across as someone rooting for him to fail.  There is no balance at all to your beat-a-dead-horse theories.  You questioned his 2020 draft which is fine.  I doubt you'll be man enough to admit it was a great draft and draft strategy if Kjerstad and Mayo are studs and Austin Martin is ordinary or worse.   It's just not part of your shtick.  You get upset when someone points out a post where you said Mayo had serious bust potential.  You are ready to pounce on Elias for any perceived mistake but you can't take any heat whatsoever. 

[EddeeEddee]

49 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Sorry, but we've got the #1 prospect only because we picked him first overall.  A monkey could have made that pick.  And while G-Rod is fantastic, he was part of the previous regime's processes.  If you really want to point to him as part of the recent success, that's fine...I'd accept that he's been developed under this current regime and they partially deserve some credit for his status.  

As mentioned earlier, the young pitchers this year have been disappointing practically across the board.  That cannot be ignored.  If we are talking about processes, the lack of performance from guys were were looking to step up and achieve this year has to be addressed.  

Yeah they've been disappointing, and they're pretty much all rookies -- on a bad team that mysteriously lost its pitching coach for awhile, still stuck in Covid weirdness.  Kremer and Akin in particular have been terrible, but it's not like they are all going to be the next John Means -- at least not in their rookie year.  This stuff takes time -- just ask the White Sox, Mariners and Padres (not to mention the Tigers and Reds -- and of course the Astros).

[Moose Milligan]

10 hours ago, EddeeEddee said:

Yeah they've been disappointing, and they're pretty much all rookies -- on a bad team that mysteriously lost its pitching coach for awhile, still stuck in Covid weirdness.  Kremer and Akin in particular have been terrible, but it's not like they are all going to be the next John Means -- at least not in their rookie year.  This stuff takes time -- just ask the White Sox, Mariners and Padres (not to mention the Tigers and Reds -- and of course the Astros).

Oh come on. 

How long was Holt gone for?

Stuck in Covid weirdness?  Dude, everyone's stuck in Covid weirdness right now, the Orioles aren't a unique case.  Some teams are thriving.  

Know who's kicking ass despite Covid weirdness?  The Blue Jays.  And the Blue Jays only just recently made it back to their home in Toronto.  All last year and most of this year they were playing in Dunedin and Buffalo.  And yet they're still a game back of the Yankees for a wild card birth.  They've dealt with more Covid weirdness than practically any team and they're legit.  Their young players are stepping up big time.  What Covid weirdness have the Orioles had to deal with in comparison?

You're right, Kremer and Akin aren't going to be the next John Means...not even John Means knew he was going to be the next John Means.  An unheralded guy who figured it out at the ML level and surprised a lot of people...they're exceptionally rare.  

I didn't expect that from Kremer and Akin, but I also didn't expect them to completely **** the bed, either.  I didn't expect both of them to have to be demoted because they were so god-awful terrible in Baltimore.  Dude, how bad do you have to be that the guy who used to be Matt Harvey is holding it down in the rotation and pitched the 2nd most innings on the club this year?  

No one's saying that Kremer and Akin were ace material but it's concerning that guys who were looked at as 3rd to 5th starters have been terrible this year.  None of the young pitching has progressed at the ML level and that's a big reason for concern.  You can't convince me otherwise.  

[Moose Milligan]

11 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Right. Results matter and luck is part of that but it comes down to talent evaluation in the end.  Tampa Bay isn't lucky. They're good.  All front offices aren't created equal where the only differences are budget and luck.  We don't know yet about Elias and his team but there are certainly signs in amateur acquisitions that they might be pretty good.  

The skepticism and negativity is a pretty lazy way to evaluate what's going on. You'll believe it when you see Results at the ML level. Hindsight is 20/20.  Why don't we all take a break and come back in 5 years and predict the past.  In the meantime it's just a big yawn.

Tampa Bay got lucky by hiring the right talent evaluators.  

 

[EddeeEddee]

6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Oh come on. 

How long was Holt gone for?

Stuck in Covid weirdness?  Dude, everyone's stuck in Covid weirdness right now, the Orioles aren't a unique case.  Some teams are thriving.  

Know who's kicking ass despite Covid weirdness?  The Blue Jays.  And the Blue Jays only just recently made it back to their home in Toronto.  All last year and most of this year they were playing in Dunedin and Buffalo.  And yet they're still a game back of the Yankees for a wild card birth.  They've dealt with more Covid weirdness than practically any team and they're legit.  Their young players are stepping up big time.  What Covid weirdness have the Orioles had to deal with in comparison?

You're right, Kremer and Akin aren't going to be the next John Means...not even John Means knew he was going to be the next John Means.  An unheralded guy who figured it out at the ML level and surprised a lot of people...they're exceptionally rare.  

I didn't expect that from Kremer and Akin, but I also didn't expect them to completely **** the bed, either.  I didn't expect both of them to have to be demoted because they were so god-awful terrible in Baltimore.  Dude, how bad do you have to be that the guy who used to be Matt Harvey is holding it down in the rotation and pitched the 2nd most innings on the club this year?  

No one's saying that Kremer and Akin were ace material but it's concerning that guys who were looked at as 3rd to 5th starters have been terrible this year.  None of the young pitching has progressed at the ML level and that's a big reason for concern.  You can't convince me otherwise.  

My point is Covid weirdness is sure to affect a team full of rookies -- none who are major pitching prospects -- more than a team that went out and got Robbie Ray, Hyun Jin Ryu, George Springer, Marcus Semien and Steven Matz.  The Blue Jays and Orioles are obviously apples and oranges -- no point in comparing them at this point.  I'm not surprised the Blue Jays might have a shot a second place in the AL East with their talent level.  And I'm not surprised this Oriole team -- with its current level of big league experience and talent level -- is barely better than the 2018 team.  But it's silly to write them all off because the season is a mess.  The next two seasons will be more telling for the likes of Kremer, Akin, Baumann, etc etc.

[interloper]

On 9/23/2021 at 4:07 PM, Moose Milligan said:

Yep, a lot of this rebuild stuff is luck.  I don't think people here are going to understand that if/when our rebuild falls on its face.

Of course you try to mitigate the luck factors as much as you can but really..at the end of this day a lot of this stuff is out of the control of what the owners/managers/GMs are trying to do.

I can tell you this - if the rebuild fails no one here is going to be saying it was bad luck. All the people telling you there's luck involved right now will be telling you how much it's Elias' fault instead.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, EddeeEddee said:

My point is Covid weirdness is sure to affect a team full of rookies -- none who are major pitching prospects -- more than a team that went out and got Robbie Ray, Hyun Jin Ryu, George Springer, Marcus Semien and Steven Matz.  The Blue Jays and Orioles are obviously apples and oranges -- no point in comparing them at this point.  I'm not surprised the Blue Jays might have a shot a second place in the AL East with their talent level.  And I'm not surprised this Oriole team -- with its current level of big league experience and talent level -- is barely better than the 2018 team.  But it's silly to write them all off because the season is a mess.  The next two seasons will be more telling for the likes of Kremer, Akin, Baumann, etc etc.

Are there rookies in the MLB that aren't affected by Covid weirdness?  

[EddeeEddee]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Are there rookies in the MLB that aren't affected by Covid weirdness?  

Yeah, Ryan Mountcastle 

[TWpj]

On 9/23/2021 at 10:56 PM, RZNJ said:

You don't question them. You just see the negative in every situation.  Big difference.  There is a balance. I might be on the Elias bandwagon side of the spectrum but you come across as someone rooting for him to fail.  There is no balance at all to your beat-a-dead-horse theories.  You questioned his 2020 draft which is fine.  I doubt you'll be man enough to admit it was a great draft and draft strategy if Kjerstad and Mayo are studs and Austin Martin is ordinary or worse.   It's just not part of your shtick.  You get upset when someone points out a post where you said Mayo had serious bust potential.  You are ready to pounce on Elias for any perceived mistake but you can't take any heat whatsoever. 

Am I allowed to upvote more than once?