Severino or Mancini - More Trade Value?

[SteveA]

39 minutes ago, wildcard said:

While I know that many on the OH think Severino is worthless, I don't think the rest of baseball feels that way.   He had problems blocking ball but he seems to have gotten better in the 2nd half.  He is tough.  Plays through injuries.  He hits lefties fairly well.   I think he has value as part of the platoon or as a backup catcher. More value than some backup catchers.

His value is in the 2-3m range IMO.   The O's may negotiate a contract with him before the non tender date.

Many here don't agree but many here don't even watch the games.

 

Well, you and I clearly disagree.  I don't think Severino provides nearly enough value to merit what he would get in arbitration.  And I think Elias knows that.  He won't throw that kind of money at a backup C, or even for a guy who will start for a month and then be a backup. And I say that having watched probably 140 games or so this year. 

[Sports Guy]

I don’t think paying 2ishM for Severino is some huge amount of money for him.  He could have a market.  We won’t get much for him but I’m not sure you need to NT him either.

 

[SteveA]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think paying 2ishM for Severino is some huge amount of money for him.  He could have a market.  We won’t get much for him but I’m not sure you need to NT him either.

 

If we have any kind of restrictive budget from ownership, paying for than $2 million for a backup C should be totally off the table.  Decisions and priorities for spending have to be made and that one seems pretty clearcut.

[vab]

Mancini should be tendered. With what he's been through over the last year and a half, I think he is just dog-tired right now. Hope for a quick start next year and possibly deal him then. Severino is free to go. He doesn't hit anywhere near enough to be as mediocre as he is defensively.

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, SteveA said:

If we have any kind of restrictive budget from ownership, paying for than $2 million for a backup C should be totally off the table.  Decisions and priorities for spending have to be made and that one seems pretty clearcut.

Oh I agree with that.  I don't think the O's should pay him.  Adley will catch a ton.

But I do think other teams could do it.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Oh I agree with that.  I don't think the O's should pay him.  Adley will catch a ton.

But I do think other teams could do it.

I think another team might do it but I don't think anyone will trade anything just so they can take him to arbitration.  I think they will let him be non-tendered then make him an offer as a free agent.

[MurphDogg]

I think Severino should be non-tendered and a better defensive veteran catcher should be brought in as a mentor for Adley and to open the season as the starter if necessary. My hope is that this defensive catcher will be signed for more than the minimum but less than Severino would have gotten if he was tendered.

They aren't going to non-tender Mancini, hopefully he gets off to a strong start and can be traded at the deadline.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

I can't see the trade market being much for Severino when you grade him as a catcher defensively. Severino is leading the AL in passed balls for 2020 and 2021, and in addition he ranks near the bottom of the league at pitch framing. 

The Orioles also rank second in wild pitches (85) this season and even though wild pitches is supposed to be when the pitcher makes a mistake, I bet that number goes down with Rutschman catching next year. The Orioles also led in the number of wild pitches for 2020. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/PB_leagues.shtml

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/catcher_framing

https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/team-stats?category=pitchingii&sort=ppg&season=2021&seasonType=reg&sortOrder=desc

[Sports Guy]

Mancini for Mike Minor. Who says no?

Minor is due to make 10M next year and Mancini will make close to that as well.

KC has some of the worst DH and first base production in the league.

Biggest issue I see for them is that they will also be paying Santana that amount of money.

[Can_of_corn]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Mancini for Mike Minor. Who says no?

Minor is due to make 10M next year and Mancini will make close to that as well.

KC has some of the worst DH and first base production in the league.

Biggest issue I see for them is that they will also be paying Santana that amount of money.

Ownership.

[NCRaven]

I agree that no one will trade for Severino when there is a chance that we could non-tender him.  And, I think we absolutely should not tender him a contract and go to arbitration.  With Mancini, I think he is simply worth more to the Orioles, even as a DH, than he would be to another team at this point in time.  I doubt that we would receive an offer for Mancini that matches our perceived value for him.  I'd pay him for his last year of team control and allow him to go into free agency next year.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I agree that no one will trade for Severino when there is a chance that we could non-tender him.  And, I think we absolutely should not tender him a contract and go to arbitration.  With Mancini, I think he is simply worth more to the Orioles, even as a DH, than he would be to another team at this point in time.  I doubt that we would receive an offer for Mancini that matches our perceived value for him.  I'd pay him for his last year of team control and allow him to go into free agency next year.

In what respect?

The team isn't going to contend next year.

He isn't going to drive ticket sales.

He isn't going to be driving merch sales.

The feel good story was him coming back in 2021 not year two.

[SteveA]

39 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Mancini for Mike Minor. Who says no?

Minor is due to make 10M next year and Mancini will make close to that as well.

KC has some of the worst DH and first base production in the league.

Biggest issue I see for them is that they will also be paying Santana that amount of money.

I'd make that deal

[Sports Guy]

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Ownership.

I could see that and I don’t think that’s a bad answer.

Minor has a 5 ERA but his peripherals are pretty good.  He is a definite upgrade for us.  Mancini is becoming redundant.  Would the team rather trade Mancini and get prospects and not take on money?  Yes and I would too, depending on the prospects.

But my guess is that we won’t get a ton for him.  I do think we can trade him and I do think some team Would take on his salary (or most of it or send us someone making a few million in the deal to offset the cost some) but i just don’t think the return will be enough in terms of saying, if we can get an established starter, the prospect return isn’t better.

In other words, give me Mike Minor over the equivalent to multiple guys in a teams 10-20 range that are probably redundant to what we already have.

[Aristotelian]

44 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Mancini for Mike Minor. Who says no?

Minor is due to make 10M next year and Mancini will make close to that as well.

KC has some of the worst DH and first base production in the league.

Biggest issue I see for them is that they will also be paying Santana that amount of money.

Not a bad thought but I don't see either team proposing this either. Probably both looking for longshot prospects that don't cost anything. With Minor we'd be getting a 1 WAR pitcher for $10M, not really a win in salary and arguably not really an improvement over Akin/Zimmerman.