Jordan Westburg 2022

[Brooks The Great]

6 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

I dont see it.  I think there is a better chance Mateo gets traded for lowly prospects and move on.   Gunnar goes to SS,  Westburg to Third and perhaps Ortiz gets Second if he looks solid in spring training.   

Only can see this trade if it is in some package trying to get a top of the rotation pitcher.  Then all bets are off I guess.   

2B Westburg
SS Ortiz
3B Gunnar 

Will be the O's best defensive alignment if Ortiz plays for the major league team next season. It doesn't make sense to put a premium SS glove at 2B. We'd have 2 gold glove caliber defenders on the left side with Westburg at 2B, but only 1 gold glove caliber defender on the left side with the alignment you mentioned.

[orioles22]

18 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

2B Westburg
SS Ortiz
3B Gunnar 

Will be the O's best defensive alignment if Ortiz plays for the major league team next season. It doesn't make sense to put a premium SS glove at 2B. We'd have 2 gold glove caliber defenders on the left side with Westburg at 2B, but only 1 gold glove caliber defender on the left side with the alignment you mentioned.

I agree, if Mateo is moved. I don't see Westburg at third.

 

[Hazmat]

11 hours ago, WI O’s Fan said:

I believe with his athleticism you go with Henderson at ss and Westburg at 2nd.  The O’s reach deep into their coffers and sign Boegarts to a 6 year 210 deal with a 2 year opt out.

Bogaerts is under contract through 2025.

[Sports Guy]

11 hours ago, RZNJ said:

I believe a team whose very best prospects are infielders are not going to invest big dollars in players like Xander Bogaerts and Shea Turner.

I don’t get the love for Bogaerts, who already isn’t a great defender and I don’t get the idea of spending a lot of money on IFers.

[jamalshw]

1 hour ago, Hazmat said:

Bogaerts is under contract through 2025.

He has an opt out at the end of the year that most expect him to exercise. 

[Hazmat]

13 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

He has an opt out at the end of the year that most expect him to exercise. 

Ah, thank you.

[Tony-OH]

22 hours ago, Frobby said:

Henderson has tolerated playing SS only part time in the minors for two years now.  I think the O’s will base their decisions on the best defensive alignment, not Henderson’s ego.  Especially since Ortiz is probably a better defensive SS than Henderson, too, and may outhit Mateo.  

This. Ortiz is the best defensive SS in the minor league system by far and Hendseron is the bets defensive 3B. If Ortiz's bat shows to be the real deal at the major league level, that's going to be the defensive lineup going forward. Now, if the team decides it will live with Mateo's bat for his glove at SS, than Ortiz moves to 2B where he would be GG caliber right off the bat. 

Westburg should be in the competition at 2b next year but it's notable that he only played the position 12 times in the last two months over 43 games. Seems to me they were more worried about showcasing Westburg as a SS/3B than preparing him as a 2B for next year.

Now Westburg can play 3B and SS effectively from a hands standpoint and he'll make all the routine plays, but his lack of arm strength is going to limit his effectiveness, particularly at SS. but a team might be willing to live with that if they think he's a 25 homer guy while playing average to slightly below average defense.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This. Ortiz is the best defensive SS in the minor league system by far and Hendseron is the bets defensive 3B. If Ortiz's bat shows to be the real deal at the major league level, that's going to be the defensive lineup going forward. Now, if the team decides it will live with Mateo's bat for his glove at SS, than Ortiz moves to 2B where he would be GG caliber right off the bat. 

Westburg should be in the competition at 2b next year but it's notable that he only played the position 12 times in the last two months over 43 games. Seems to me they were more worried about showcasing Westburg as a SS/3B than preparing him as a 2B for next year.

Now Westburg can play 3B and SS effectively from a hands standpoint and he'll make all the routine plays, but his lack of arm strength is going to limit his effectiveness, particularly at SS. but a team might be willing to live with that if they think he's a 25 homer guy while playing average to slightly below average defense.

Is his arm really worse than Urias?

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Is his arm really worse than Urias?

Urias has the stronger arm for me. Urias' arm is not really that bad, it's his below average lateral movement and his arm action makes it tough for him to be an effective second baseman or shortstop. He does not turn the double play well at either spot. He good at third base because it's a reaction position.

Westburg just has below average arm strength for the left side of the infield. He's got plenty of lateral quickness in my estimation and he has a good game clock for throws, similar to Hardy but Hardy had the extra arm when he needed it, Westburg not so much.

Westburg could ultimately end up at 1B if he's not traded. I will say that he probably could be an ok 3B defensively but you won't get many of those wow plays when you need that arm strength.

[Ridgway22]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

 

Westburg could ultimately end up at 1B if he's not traded. I will say that he probably could be an ok 3B defensively but you won't get many of those wow plays when you need that arm strength.

As someone who is a Mountcastle fan and really wants him to succeed in Orange and Black, I'm getting increasingly frustrated watching his At Bats, especially now with AR, then Ryan afterwards. It's like the two extremes of plate discipline, and really highlights RM's weakness. (Trade RM for pitching?)

The idea of having Westburg dedicate himself to 1B, Ortiz at 2B, Keep Mateo, and Gunnar at 3B, could give us a defensive infield that every sinkerball pitcher in the league would drool over. At very low cost for a couple years (freeing money for pitching?). 

And while I have zero evidence to back this point up, I believe banning the shift will benefit the classic, rangy middle infielders, of which Mateo and Ortiz are.

To all of which, I do have to say being able to talk about these "problems" is a breath of fresh air in the O's Kingdom.

Sign some front line pitching this offseason, and for the rest of the current staff, "Let the Hunger Games Begin!"

 

[jamalshw]

I'm going to be really interested to see what happens this offseason. I think the Orioles will acquire a top-end pitcher, but I'm skeptical they'll dish out the money to buy Rodon or someone like that. Instead, we could see a trade given we're starting to graduate guys. It'll be very interesting to see how Elias handles trading away prospects rather than for them. Westburg could very well be one of the guys on the block. 

[orioles22]

7 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

This. Ortiz is the best defensive SS in the minor league system by far and Hendseron is the bets defensive 3B. If Ortiz's bat shows to be the real deal at the major league level, that's going to be the defensive lineup going forward. Now, if the team decides it will live with Mateo's bat for his glove at SS, than Ortiz moves to 2B where he would be GG caliber right off the bat. 

Westburg should be in the competition at 2b next year but it's notable that he only played the position 12 times in the last two months over 43 games. Seems to me they were more worried about showcasing Westburg as a SS/3B than preparing him as a 2B for next year.

Now Westburg can play 3B and SS effectively from a hands standpoint and he'll make all the routine plays, but his lack of arm strength is going to limit his effectiveness, particularly at SS. but a team might be willing to live with that if they think he's a 25 homer guy while playing average to slightly below average defense.

How do you feel about the theory that Mateo is the utility guy, including time in the outfield? I think he plays short or he's traded.

[deward]

 

 

[emmett16]

They just keep hitting.  Love all the competitions at all levels for all positions.  What a pipeline they have created.  

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, emmett16 said:

They just keep hitting.  Love all the competitions at all levels for all positions.  What a pipeline they have created.  

I was just musing about the “pipeline” of middle infielders Elias inherited compared to what we have now.  It’s embarrassing to even discuss.   Here are the MiL players who played at least 100 innings at 2B or SS in 2018:

Norfolk: Ruben Tejada, Breyvic Valera, Starlin Schoop, Adrian Marin, Luis Sardinas.

Bowie: Corban Joseph, Rylan Bannon. Anderson Feliz, Erick Salcedo

Frederick: Preston Palneiro, Alexandro Juvier, Chris Clare

Delmarva: Kirvin Moesquit. Branden Becker, Mason McCoy, Cadyn Grenier

Aberdeen: Alexis Torres, Milton Ramos, Adam Hall

Pathetic.