Gunnar Henderson 2022

[RZNJ]

You 

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The Devil is in the details you say?

 

What about this detail?

Check the date on the tweet.

DETAILS.

 

Could you please tell us another hundred times how you suggested we sign Henderson to a long term deal last year?   There might be some a few members or visitors who haven't gotten the news yet.    Doesn't your back ever get sore from patting it so much?  I know mine would.

Just like every one else has said.  It's easy to say lock up young players to long term contracts.   Knowing which players are going to turn into stars and which ones aren't is not as easy.   Getting players to sign those contracts is not always easy.   Could it have been done?   Maybe.   We'll never know probably what type of deal COULD have gotten it done.   Did you specify what type of deal you would have offered?     

Also, where is this thread where EVERYONE laughed at you?   Can you point me to it?   Does it even exist?   EVERYONE?    I have a feeling IF such a thread exists that it's a little bit less than EVERYONE.    

[Aristotelian]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm shocked you're surprised.   I absolutely advocated for signing Gunnar to a 10 year deal last season, when he was still in A ball.  Folks were not on board.

 

"Folks were not on board" is different than "everyone laughed". 

If someone digs up the thread I wouldn't be surprised to see myself going either way. Best guess is I would have said I'm interested in the concept as long as it is team friendly. I think that would be my position now on Cowser, for example. The bottom line is it's pretty rare for teams to sign players (and vice versa) before even getting to the majors. 

Frobby did a thread on the Scott Kingery deal (maybe for Hays?) and I recall generally mixed opinion. 

[Hallas]

18 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

 

Yea, long term deal.

That's a good idea.

We might be buying high.  He's currently on pace for 16.2 WAR over a full season

[Aristotelian]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I got no one this year.  It isn't a move I would suggest every year.

And you also know I never give numbers.  In this case you wouldn't even have a comp to work off of.  No idea what Gunnar and his agent at the time would have required.  I stated at the time that I wouldn't have handed him a blank check.

If you didn't give a number it's a worthless prediction. 

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I got no one this year.  It isn't a move I would suggest every year.

And you also know I never give numbers.  In this case you wouldn't even have a comp to work off of.  No idea what Gunnar and his agent at the time would have required.  I stated at the time that I wouldn't have handed him a blank check.

Keep him for four years, or maybe five... Ride the whirlwind... Trade him for a truckload of prospects to plug back into the farm.

Replace him with the best of Joey Ortiz/Darrel Hernaiz/Maikol Hernandez/Jackson Holliday

Keep a stable of premium prospects at every position, by using the last year/years of control to restock the farm.

Let somebody else pay the 10+ year mid to late 30's contracts.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

[Bemorewins]

I don’t think Boras will let Gunnar take the Wander Franco deal because that will take him into his 30’s when his value will be lower and his shot at getting another big payday maybe be gone. He may be more interested in hearing an 8 year deal, which would have him hit FA at 29. Or Maybe a 12-14 year deal like some of the other younger stars have gotten like Rodriguez with an opt out after say 8/9 years.

Whichever the case may be we need to get out ahead of it instead letting the clock tick. And no, this is not how we have operated in the past. But I’m very hopefully with what Elias has done and thus far. Before him, we had never actually gone through a complete and correct rebuild/tear down. And thus we were stuck in “the land of in between” which is the worst place a professional franchise can be in. 
 

Elias has been allowed/empowered to rip the bandaid approach off and put us in a tremendous position going forward. I keep saying it (at least to myself…lol) we are not that far away from being a serious contender for a World Series. Like I just don’t see any possible way that next year Boston or New York is better than us, or for that matter Cleveland, Minn, the White Sox and maybe even Tampa. I believe our main competition for the pennant next year will be Toronto, Houston and Seattle. 
 

I’m sorry I have gotten way off topic.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Bemorewins

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If you didn't give a number it's a worthless prediction. 

Right, if I make up a number and attach it to the suggestion it has more merit.

Right...

Can't just posit a strategy.  I need made up numbers. 

[Remember The Alomar]

I think Henderson will be very good, and I would be happy to have him locked up long term, but this is such a funny debate to be having so vociferously after his first three major league games. 

[Aristotelian]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Right, if I make up a number and attach it to the suggestion it has more merit.

Right...

Can't just posit a strategy.  I need made up numbers. 

If all you did was posit the strategy, I can't believe your description of everyone laughing is accurate. If you posited the Franco deal when Gunnar was in Aberdeen, that would have been an incredible call.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You 

Could you please tell us another hundred times how you suggested we sign Henderson to a long term deal last year?   There might be some a few members or visitors who haven't gotten the news yet.    Doesn't your back ever get sore from patting it so much?  I know mine would.

Just like every one else has said.  It's easy to say lock up young players to long term contracts.   Knowing which players are going to turn into stars and which ones aren't is not as easy.   Getting players to sign those contracts is not always easy.   Could it have been done?   Maybe.   We'll never know probably what type of deal COULD have gotten it done.   Did you specify what type of deal you would have offered?     

Also, where is this thread where EVERYONE laughed at you?   Can you point me to it?   Does it even exist?   EVERYONE?    I have a feeling IF such a thread exists that it's a little bit less than EVERYONE.    

I love how you just completely ignored you getting owned by your own factual ignorance when you tried to play the change the quote game.

Typical.

I've already said it was a figure of speech.   I don't recall a single poster supporting the idea.  If someone did I'll apologize to them.  I recall numerous snarky comments about the idea throughout last year.  Comments that oddly died out over this season.

If you ever hit on an internet suggestion to the degree I did with Gunnar you would keep mentioning it as well. 

You can dislike me all you want but man, this was a grade A hit of a prediction.

 

[PHRESH]

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

If all you did was posit the strategy, I can't believe your description of everyone laughing is accurate. If you posited the Franco deal when Gunnar was in Aberdeen, that would have been an incredible call.

I wouldn't have done that.  The O's would have needed better terms at the time.  I would have said no to the Franco deal.

I don't know the money.  I admit to not knowing the money.  That's not my field.  I just don't see a value add in suggesting set dollar amounts that aren't rooted in reality. 

 

 

[RZNJ]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I got no one this year.  It isn't a move I would suggest every year.

And you also know I never give numbers.  In this case you wouldn't even have a comp to work off of.  No idea what Gunnar and his agent at the time would have required.  I stated at the time that I wouldn't have handed him a blank check.

So, there is no one in the Orioles  entire #1 ranked farm system you feel strongly enough to offer a long term deal?   That seems odd.   Were you predicting super stardom for Henderson last year?    Why Henderson and no one else?    Not Rodriguez?   Not Cowser?     You must have been predicting great things for Henderson last year.    You don't post much on minor league guys.   I think I would remember you thinking Gunnar was going to be a huge star.

Can you at least point us to the thread where you talked about this?

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, owknows said:

Keep him for four years, or maybe five... Ride the whirlwind... Trade him for a truckload of prospects to plug back into the farm.

Replace him with the best of Joey Ortiz/Darrel Hernaiz/Maikol Hernandez/Jackson Holliday

Keep a stable of premium prospects at every position, by using the last year/years of control to restock the farm.

Let somebody else pay the 10+ year mid to late 30's contracts.

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

This is an approach to take and I’m not saying that you are wrong. 
 

I just think that some guys are special and you can’t just plug in the next guy. Though who knows Holiday may indeed prove to be better.

From a franchise perspective, I hope that we don’t take the “rinse and repeat” approach with all of our stars. I hope some are retained within reason. 
 

No I don’t want to be paying aging guys who are unproductive. But I think there’s a way to be proactive about who you pay and when you pay them so you don’t have to.

If we want to build a strong fanbase taking a rigid “rinse and repeat” approach is not the best way to go IMO. We will be like Tampa, in that constant cycle of rebuild and turnover, where we will be good, young and cheap. But never great. We need to do whatever necessary to win a World Series (I know Tampa has been twice in the last 15 or so years and lost twice). We haven’t won in almost 40 years. I would hate for us to have to go another 20 without one.

No matter how you, I, or anyone slices it; it takes being smart AND spending money on good players to get over the top. 

I believe Gunnar and Adley are the top of foundational pieces that you build on for the long term and not throw away because you have to pay them.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I love how you just completely ignored you getting owned by your own factual ignorance when you tried to play the change the quote game.

Typical.

I've already said it was a figure of speech.   I don't recall a single poster supporting the idea.  If someone did I'll apologize to them.  I recall numerous snarky comments about the idea throughout last year.  Comments that oddly died out over this season.

If you ever hit on an internet suggestion to the degree I did with Gunnar you would keep mentioning it as well. 

You can dislike me all you want but man, this was a grade A hit of a prediction.

 

Ok.  I own it.  I didn't know when Scott Boras became Gunnar's agent.   I didn't realize it was after you posted your idea about offering him the long term deal.   I got owned!!!!!    

You are fantastic.   Perhaps we can get the whole board to post it so you'll feel better.   A grate A hit of a prediction?   What was the prediction?

By the way, you must lead the OH in "grade A hit" predictions.   There is no one who repeats "I was right" more than you.   You lead the league.    You are GRADE A!

Edited September 3, 2022 by RZNJ