Olney on trade deadline

[oriole]

If Mullins, Hays, Santander, and Mancini are all playing well enough by the deadline to get a good return…and if Rutschman, Hall, and Rodriguez are up and presumably playing well…then it creates quite a conundrum because it will be exciting baseball. That’s a really tough sell for a GM to make. I do think it’s the right choice to make the trades if the return is good…but people are going to be absolutely pissed. 

[Camden_yardbird]

This article would have been very different if the Orioles had actually signed some infielders and were sitting at say 17-20 instead of 14-23.

[LTO's]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Very few guys are worth paying big money in that late 20s/early 30s area.

With all due respect, people have been telling you this for months now when arguing about this roster and you've argued against it relentlessly. Do you just enjoy arguing? 

[Ripken]

Sure, trade the current OFs and then play... uhh, Stowers, I guess.  Are we counting on Diaz, Cowser and Kjerstad to actually be something or are we good with the 100 loss seasons continuing?  Would really be nice if Elias actually hits on the 1st round pick this year.

[UMDTerrapins]

6 minutes ago, oriole said:

If Mullins, Hays, Santander, and Mancini are all playing well enough by the deadline to get a good return…and if Rutschman, Hall, and Rodriguez are up and presumably playing well…then it creates quite a conundrum because it will be exciting baseball. That’s a really tough sell for a GM to make. I do think it’s the right choice to make the trades if the return is good…but people are going to be absolutely pissed. 

That's right. And there's some parallel to where Mancini and (to a lesser degree) Santander are today and where Mullins/Hays will be in a few years. We should absolutely trade Mancini if we get anything of value for him.....2022 is not going to be judged on W/L. But after this year, Elias absolutely should be judged on W/L. We are WAY too easy on him when it comes to expectations. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Also, funny that Buster thinks Elias cares about goodwill existing with the fans.

 

He does and he doesn't.  He doesn't seem to care about losing 100 games each year but he doesn't want to do it without fan friendly faces such as Mancini.  Seems like a weird place to be in.

 

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 I mean, if the drafts Jones 1 and if he’s as good as they say, he will be here in 2-3 years. 

Lol, more like 7 to 8 years.

Do I need to remind you with what they're doing with Adley?

 

[eddie83]

I’m curious how much buzz Adley and Grayson down the road will create. 
 

I think that 8-4 stretch got people a little excited and then it all came crashing down and quickly. 
 

Patience is wearing thin. Even for the people who supported the rebuild. Moving established players is not an easy sell to the fan base right after the prospects start arriving. 

[Orioles0615]

Sounds like suggesting more of the key O's philosophy of being 2 years away from being 2 years away 

[Ohfan67]

17 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

This article would have been very different if the Orioles had actually signed some infielders and were sitting at say 17-20 instead of 14-23.

Three games in the standings in mid May would make things different? That doesn’t make sense. 

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, LTO's said:

With all due respect, people have been telling you this for months now when arguing about this roster and you've argued against it relentlessly. Do you just enjoy arguing? 

2 totally different arguments.  Context matters a lot.
 

First of all, for 2022, we don’t have the players available and ready to help us win.  The organization isn’t in that place yet and there were a lot of holes that could have easily been filled to make the team better.

Secondly, not everyone I would have acquired was in those age ranges, in fact I wanted many guys who were far younger.

 

[UMDTerrapins]

One last thought. Imagine it's July 1st. Rodriguez, Hall, Bradish, Zimmerman, Wells are in the rotation. We're looking to trade Lyles because there's no room/need for him in the rotation. Rutschman has turned our offensive hole at catcher into a plus position, and made our current 5 man offense (when healthy) passable. For an otherwise exciting team, it will become very conspicuous that we're trotting out Bannon, Nevin, or Gutierrez at 3B. And Odor at 2B. And with a surprisingly decent bullpen, it will be a lot easier to at least imagine becoming a winner. Just a month plus from now. Yes, I'm making a few assumptions with health, but that's not the point. The point (and I know I'm repeating myself) is that Mullins and Hays should be expected to part of an Oriole team that is turning the corner. 

[jamalshw]

Yeah. I don't agree on the Mullins/Hays front. Mancini should be dealt. He's a free agent at year's end and I don't see them bringing him back (and if they really wanted to they could do that in the offseason). Santander, maybe. Mullins or Hays? If you get a "knock your socks off" type of deal. But as others have pointed out, despite the recent losing streak, this team is closer than looking towards 2025 and beyond.

We should see Rodriguez, Hall and Rutschman this year. We should see Henderson next year. There are obvious concerns about Cowser, Stowers, and Westburg at the moment, but they're looming as well. If Vavra is ever healthy, he's an option and Prieto has looked very good (albeit at a level too low for him). We're seeing some of the young arms making the bullpen better and I'm excited to see how Vespi fits. 

Honestly, at season's end (provided we don't trade off too much at the deadline) we should be close to competing. Once we promote Rutschman (any day now) and Henderson (beginning of 2023), that solves the C and 3B holes. Trading Mancini opens a hole at DH, but hopefully Stowers or Diaz or someone else on the farm can fill that. 2B is still an issue, but there's Westburg, Vavra, Prieto, etc. to help. And, of course, a big free agent acquisition to plop in the middle of the order and solve the DH or 2B question and/or replace Mateo at SS (and potentially slide him into the 2B conversation). 

On the pitching side, Bradish will have ups and downs as we've seen. The same will be true of Rodriguez and Hall, but we've gotten some great pitching so far from Zimmermann who looks like a legitimate big league starter. Means will be coming back next year as well. That's five potentially legitimate starters. Beyond that, we are a bit shallow in SP, but a free agent or two could help there. While the pen is pretty solid with options though an extra arm or two would help. 

Realistically, with an offseason shopping list of one bat, one starter and a bullpen arm (or swing guy), I could see this team take a big jump going into 2023. 

Now, will the team spend? I've been fine with the approach so far (though I would've liked to see one big signing over this past winter so all the work didn't happen next offseason), but I do think there's money there when we're ready to flip the proverbial switch. I'm fine with building up talent in the system and prioritizing that over wins over the last several years. I've been patient and respected the process, but it seems clear the process is leading towards a jump for next year. 

With that in mind, I'll be upset if they don't do something sizable this offseason and I'll be upset if they trade off everyone this deadline. They should deal Mancini. They should deal Lyles. I'd be fine if they moved a bullpen arm if they get a great offer. But much beyond that is not a great sign for 2023 and I'll start joining the mob against Elias and company. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

Yeah. I don't agree on the Mullins/Hays front. Mancini should be dealt. He's a free agent at year's end and I don't see them bringing him back (and if they really wanted to they could do that in the offseason). Santander, maybe. Mullins or Hays? If you get a "knock your socks off" type of deal. But as others have pointed out, despite the recent losing streak, this team is closer than looking towards 2025 and beyond.

 

Then extend them.

If you think they are part of the core they should be extended.

Either of those options is better than just letting them walk.

[BohKnowsBmore]

22 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Sure, trade the current OFs and then play... uhh, Stowers, I guess.  Are we counting on Diaz, Cowser and Kjerstad to actually be something or are we good with the 100 loss seasons continuing?  Would really be nice if Elias actually hits on the 1st round pick this year.

Need to see what we have in Diaz. If We're able to get good value for Santander, then absolutely trade him and play Diaz once he's back from injury along with McKenna and Stowers if he turns the corner. 

[oriole]

20 minutes ago, UMDTerrapins said:

That's right. And there's some parallel to where Mancini and (to a lesser degree) Santander are today and where Mullins/Hays will be in a few years. We should absolutely trade Mancini if we get anything of value for him.....2022 is not going to be judged on W/L. But after this year, Elias absolutely should be judged on W/L. We are WAY too easy on him when it comes to expectations. 

Mancini is the easy sell of the group since he’s a free agent. The other three, especially if doing well, not so much. But considering there’s a lot of talent in the OF in the minors I don’t really feel it’s worth keeping all three. Maybe keep one of Hays or Mullins for good will but honestly…if someone is willing to give up some good players for these guys then the smart move is to take the PR hit and do it. The fans will come around once the team is winning again.