Rutschman vs Witt

[Number5]

It seems to me that sometimes bad umpiring is attributed to "framing."  If a catcher has more balls 4 inches off the plate called a strike than another catcher, "framing" becomes the statistical explanation.  Having pitches that clearly hit the corner, sometimes with the entire ball in the strike zone called balls becomes statistically counted as "poor framing."  Put Adley on the Yankees and he will instantaneously and magically be considered an excellent framer, IMO.

Yes, framing is a thing, but it isn't always THE thing.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Number5 said:

It seems to me that sometimes bad umpiring is attributed to "framing."  If a catcher has more balls 4 inches off the plate called a strike than another catcher, "framing" becomes the statistical explanation.  Having pitches that clearly hit the corner, sometimes with the entire ball in the strike zone called balls becomes statistically counted as "poor framing."  Put Adley on the Yankees and he will instantaneously and magically be considered an excellent framer, IMO.

Yes, framing is a thing, but it isn't always THE thing.

Can you please explain to me why an Ump would call a pitch for the Yankees a strike that they don't for the Orioles?

What's the motivation?

Is it a league mandate?

 

[Number5]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Can you please explain to me why an Ump would call a pitch for the Yankees a strike that they don't for the Orioles?

What's the motivation?

Is it a league mandate?

 

Good question.

[Jim'sKid26]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The only excuse for Adley that carries any weight is he may be tired because of how often Hyde is playing him but he has been lazy behind the plate for much of the year. He had gotten into bad habits. Everything defensively is worse this year, whether it be pitch framing or throwing or blocking.

I think the pitch calling has been iffy at times too although so much of that comes from the dugout nowadays anymore, so I don’t know how much of that is to blame on Adley.

He just has to get back to what he was last year. It’s not going to happen this year but he needs to watch tape in the offseason and see what he did so well last year that he isn’t doing this year.

This is the trouble with having one of your best offensive players be a catcher. Fatigue is a substantial part of being a professional athlete. Managing it is an art. Some do it well, (Sal Perez comes to mind), some wear down by the end of a long season. This is a skill that Adley needs to learn. He's young and healthy. This self maintenance will get harder and harder as he ages. 

I think that he needs to DH less and not lead off. He needs real days off, not DH days off. Hyde and company need to seriously take this into consideration. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Jim'sKid26

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, emmett16 said:

Please enlighten us on the break down in his technique.  

I stand by what I said.  I see no major difference in his technique/approach.

His pop time & exchange time have both dropped from last year(both to 2b & 3B), but he hasn’t been as accurate.  His arm strength is down 1mph from last year even with lower pop times.  SB attempts have almost doubled, Runner sprint speed has increased by .5ft/sec, and runner distance to 2b has decreased by 1.5’. 
 

He has allowed 33 WP+PB in 3,376 opportunities.  Last year he allowed 25 WP+PB in 3,288 opportunities.  So in 30 less innings caught so far this year, the pitchers have had thrown 88 more potential WP+PB and Adleys blocking percentage has decreased by .0021%.

As I said before, you have to separate the results/production from the process.  It’s hard to do, I know. 

He is in a defense slump(ie. Results/production are down a tick), but the approach & technique are perfectly fine.  To say he is “lazy” is a…..lazy oversimplification of how he’s performing. 
 

A simple look at Adley vs. McCann on baseball savant will illustrate that Adley has been out performing McCann in almost every stat(blocking, framing, throwing).  McCanns throws have been accurate(again….result/production vs. process).  

You should watch. If you don’t see the difference between how Adley is doing it now and how he did it last year, I question your ability to evaluate what you watching or just simply if you are watching at all.

It has been talked about a ton on this site..he is doing a lot of back handing of balls in the dirt. He’s not getting in front of the ball. He’s not squaring up. This has been observed by many many people and discussed time and time again.

As for McCann..if the numbers say that, that’s fine. I have witnessed McCann blocking much better and with better technique but I can’t say I watch all the time to the point where I’m focused on McCann enough. I know the throwing with McCann has been better.

 

[MacAdoo]

12 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

This is the trouble with having one of your best offensive players be a catcher. Fatigue is a substantial part of being a professional athlete. Managing it is an art. Some do it well, (Sal Perez comes to mind), some wear down by the end of a long season. This is a skill that Adley needs to learn. He's young and healthy. This self maintenance will get harder and harder as he ages. 

I think that he needs to DH less and not lead off. He needs real days off, not DH days off. Hyde and company need to seriously take this into consideration. 

I think Adley has shown that he's a good enough hitter to ride him while he's hot, but he's also shown that he's not a good enough hitter to just pencil him into the DH spot every time he gets a break behind the plate, regardless.  Adley seems to be more of Jason Varitek than a Mike Piazza statistically.  While statistically he's been good, he hasn't quite been what many (at least me, anyway) expected offensively.  That said, his intangibles appear to be off the chart.  There has to be something to why the Orioles went from rebuild mode to contention mode literally the day he was called up. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Adley: 33 WP and 0 PB in 730 innings (1 WP/PB every 22 innings).

McCann: 16 WP and 1 PB in 306 innings (1 WP/PB every 18 innings).

So how is it that Adley’s technique is “awful” but McCann is “doing fine?”

I do think Adley has had lapses at times and it’s pretty clear he hasn’t been as consistently good at blocking as last year.  He’s still rated as +1 in blocking by Statcast, so I hesitate to use the word “awful.”

Now as to whether the pitchers have anything to do with the increased number of wild pitches, it’s a valid question and I don’t think it’s “absurd” or an “excuse” to raise it.  Pitchers obviously play a role on wild pitches.  For the O’s, four pitchers have more than half the team’s wild pitches: Bradish (8), Gibson (7), Bautista (7) and Baumann (6).  Bautista and Baumann have 13, compared to 3 last year.  Baumann is pitching much more than he did last year (59 innings compared to 34 all last year), and we’ve all seen that Bautista’s command of his splitter has not been nearly as good this year as it was last year.   So, things like that absolutely could be factors in the increased WP numbers.  

Even so, Statcast data suggests that it’s mostly just a downtick in performance by Adley.   They break down blocking chances into easy, medium and tough.  Per their data, Adley has had 94.1% easy chances, 4.6% medium, 1.4% tough this year, compared to 93.2/4.9/1.9% last year.  So, a slightly easier mix this year overall.  They have him +4, +1, and -1 on those chances this year, compared to +7, +6 and +5 last year.  

Just for one last bit of perspective, Statcast says Adley has had 3,376 blocking opportunities this year, in 730 innings.  That’s 4.6 pitches an inning.  It’s amazing how often these catchers are having to position their bodies to block a pitch.  

 

No, it’s a bs excuse. Look, what standard to do you want to hold Adley to? Is he the best or not? Are we holding him up to a standard of the best or not?

Are we putting him on the Realmuto level or not? If we are and we want to say, he is the BEST, he needs to be graded tougher and not on some scale where we look for reasons why he isn’t as good. When you are the best, you overcome things.

When you start searching for reasons like, well maybe his pitchers are harder to catch (which btw I think is bs and I don’t find this staff any harder than last year, when it was largely the same staff), that is a way of trying to find an excuse.

This website is great for a lot of things but this site has always been very lollipopish when it comes to the players, especially the team stars and leaders. No one wants to say anything bad about Adley. Just trying to find any reason to justify when things are worse instead of simply saying, his technique is worse. Trying to backhand spiked curveballs in the dirt isn’t a good way to block them.

 

[Sports Guy]

24 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

This is the trouble with having one of your best offensive players be a catcher. Fatigue is a substantial part of being a professional athlete. Managing it is an art. Some do it well, (Sal Perez comes to mind), some wear down by the end of a long season. This is a skill that Adley needs to learn. He's young and healthy. This self maintenance will get harder and harder as he ages. 

I think that he needs to DH less and not lead off. He needs real days off, not DH days off. Hyde and company need to seriously take this into consideration. 

Right, which is why I wanted Witt over him. Longer career and likely better/longer peak.

And yes, I agree he needs real days off..Hyde did him a disservice early in the year imo.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is the approach and technique perfectly fine?

I know, I know, eye test and all but to my eyes he does look as if he's not putting in the same level of effort that he was last year.

I'm not talking about the throwing, but the framing and pitch blocking.

Here is how I see it.  These guys literally block thousands of pitches in the dirt.  A player can have great technique 95% of the time, but how often do they have little lapses?   Everyone does.  I think it’s a wild mischaracterization to say Adley is “lazy” or that his technique is “awful.”   In my opinion, his technique is excellent most of the time.  But has he had more small lapses than last year that have allowed a few possibly blockable WP to get by?  Based on personal observation, I’d say yes.   

And, it’s also possible that there have been a few more pitches this year that fall into the category of not just tough, but unblockable.   
 

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Here is how I see it.  These guys literally block thousands of pitches in the dirt.  A player can have great technique 95% of the time, but how often do they have little lapses?   Everyone does.  I think it’s a wild mischaracterization to say Adley is “lazy” or that his technique is “awful.”   In my opinion, his technique is excellent most of the time.  But has he had more small lapses than last year that have allowed a few possibly blockable WP to get by?  Based on personal observation, I’d say yes.   

And, it’s also possible that there have been a few more pitches this year that fall into the category of not just tough, but unblockable.   
 

I didn't use that language.  But I do think a drop-off is there.

[btdart20]

Age doesn't matter if neither are re-signed.  Until we see someone re-signed, that's a false assumption.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, it’s a bs excuse. Look, what standard to do you want to hold Adley to? Is he the best or not? Are we holding him up to a standard of the best or not?

Are we putting him on the Realmuto level or not? If we are and we want to say, he is the BEST, he needs to be graded tougher and not on some scale where we look for reasons why he isn’t as good. When you are the best, you overcome things.

When you start searching for reasons like, well maybe his pitchers are harder to catch (which btw I think is bs and I don’t find this staff any harder than last year, when it was largely the same staff), that is a way of trying to find an excuse.

This website is great for a lot of things but this site has always been very lollipopish when it comes to the players, especially the team stars and leaders. No one wants to say anything bad about Adley. Just trying to find any reason to justify when things are worse instead of simply saying, his technique is worse. Trying to backhand spiked curveballs in the dirt isn’t a good way to block them.

 

My disagreement with you comes from the way you express yourself.  Everything that isn’t perfect is “awful” or “lazy.”  Decisions you disagree with are “stupid” or “moronic.”  

Some things have more than one explanation.  There can be more wild pitches because (1) the catcher hasn’t done as good a job of blocking them AND (2) the pitchers have thrown more pitches that are difficult or impossible to block.  So when someone raises the second possibility, I don’t see that as making an “excuse.”   It raises a legitimate question to be examined.  Now if someone just says it’s the pitchers’ fault without backing that up, that’s making an excuse.   

I don’t really understand where you’re going with the Realmuto comparison. Is anyone arguing that Adley has been the best defensive catcher in the game this year, or that his defense hadn’t slipped some this year compared to last?   I don’t think so.  
 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't use that language.  But I do think a drop-off is there.

I didn’t mean to suggest you had used that language. And I do think there’s been a drop-off.  

[emmett16]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You should watch. If you don’t see the difference between how Adley is doing it now and how he did it last year, I question your ability to evaluate what you watching or just simply if you are watching at all.

It has been talked about a ton on this site..he is doing a lot of back handing of balls in the dirt. He’s not getting in front of the ball. He’s not squaring up. This has been observed by many many people and discussed time and time again.

As for McCann..if the numbers say that, that’s fine. I have witnessed McCann blocking much better and with better technique but I can’t say I watch all the time to the point where I’m focused on McCann enough. I know the throwing with McCann has been better.

 

I watch about 90% of their games.  I’m not gonna sit here and say the man is infallible and I can remember  2 or 3 instances it looked like he spaced out for a second and missed a block.  But I’m not going to let that cloud my judgment on his entire body of work.  Again, his % of blocks on opportunities has decreased by .0021%. That is not a fault of laziness or anything to be alarmed by. 

Ive explained in earlier posts why he (and all catchers) are backhanding the ball more now vs. in the past.  

With regards to throwing, I’m gonna take the guy with a stronger arm (85.4mph v.82.6 ), a quicker  exchange (.65 v .69), and a quick pop-time (1.91 v. 2.01) all day every day and call 17 attempts an extremely SSS. 

 

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My disagreement with you comes from the way you express yourself.  Everything that isn’t perfect is “awful” or “lazy.”  Decisions you disagree with are “stupid” or “moronic.”  

Some things have more than one explanation.  There can be more wild pitches because (1) the catcher hasn’t done as good a job of blocking them AND (2) the pitchers have thrown more pitches that are difficult or impossible to block.  So when someone raises the second possibility, I don’t see that as making an “excuse.”   It raises a legitimate question to be examined.  Now if someone just says it’s the pitchers’ fault without backing that up, that’s making an excuse.   

I don’t really understand where you’re going with the Realmuto comparison. Is anyone arguing that Adley has been the best defensive catcher in the game this year, or that his defense hadn’t slipped some this year compared to last?   I don’t think so.  
 

It’s an excuse because anyone watching can see the issue. It’s not like Adley is doing everything correctly and the ball is still getting by him because it’s thrown so far off or something like that.

He is just not doing it properly and anyone can see that if they are paying attention  and being honest about it.

Realamuto (or whoever you want to use)  is generally regarded as one of, if not the best defensive C in baseball.  That is THE standard we should be holding Adley to. When holding someone to the standard of being the best of the best, you don’t find reasons to blame someone else. The blame goes on that person and that person has to overcome it because that’s what being the best is.  
 

Is there any evidence at all that suggests the Os have a staff that is “tough to catch”? Is there any evidence that says their staff is harder than others?

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Sports Guy